16-03-2004 05:28									#241
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Drake and Agathon, here's a quiz so you can prove you actually can order them like that.

Identify which is from which.

Attachment: quiz.png
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	16-03-2004 05:28									#242
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ah, excellent. i got on a friend's computer (he uses gnome rather than KDE) and they also have sub-pixel hinting for font-smoothing.

he didn't have arial, but he did have times new roman, so.

this is in gnome 2.6/openoffice 1.1

Attachment: fonts.jpg
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	16-03-2004 05:32									#243
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Don't Gnome and KDE both use XFT?

And don't individual applications in Linux still need to be compiled to support font AA? (ie, why there's still mozilla-firefox-gtk2-xft builds...)

	16-03-2004 05:33									#244
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Identify which is from which.

1. Windows
2. KDE
3. Mac

	16-03-2004 05:34									#245
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you mean xfs (xfontserver)?
yes and no. you can disable it. i've disabled it on mine, i don't know what he's done.

some apps have to have it compiled in. i'm on gentoo, so i've added it to the default use flags, so. he's on gentoo too, so i dunno... i don't really pay much attention to it anymore, since i've got a stable system and aren't doing as much compiling ('cept for new kernels).

	16-03-2004 05:35									#246
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To be honest, I can't tell them apart.

	16-03-2004 05:37									#247
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed you mean xfs (xfontserver)? yes and no. you can disable it. i've disabled it on mine, i don't know what he's done. some apps have to have it compiled in. i'm on gentoo, so i've added it to the default use flags, so. he's on gentoo too, so i dunno... i don't really pay much attention to it anymore, since i've got a stable system and aren't doing as much compiling ('cept for new kernels).

No, I'm referring to XFT: http://www.scottbolander.com/mozilla-xft.html

	16-03-2004 05:38									#248
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quote: Originally posted by Asher To be honest, I can't tell them apart.

So, did you ask the question without knowing the answer?

	16-03-2004 05:39									#249
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On topic peoples .

	16-03-2004 05:42									#250
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor So, did you ask the question without knowing the answer?

I know the answer, I made the image from Q^3's.

	16-03-2004 05:43									#251
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xft? it's not compiled into my kde, isn't in the ebuilds, and i didn't use it as a use flag. it also doesn't show up in my world file, so i'd guess not, unless it's part of the basic kde package.

nice, grr. is that one desktop over two monitors? if it is, i'm envious.

	16-03-2004 05:47									#252
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aha. found xft, it's part of xfree. reading up on it, kde and gnome don't have to use it, but can.

	16-03-2004 06:06									#253
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed xft? it's not compiled into my kde, isn't in the ebuilds, and i didn't use it as a use flag. it also doesn't show up in my world file, so i'd guess not, unless it's part of the basic kde package. nice, grr. is that one desktop over two monitors? if it is, i'm envious.

Yep, that is one dual monitor desktop, 2560x1024 all the way.

Anyway, here is my lappie's desktop:

	16-03-2004 06:26									#254
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purdy.

as shown earlier, mine is indistinguishable from windows classic, save for the start menu, where you can first see the difference.

	16-03-2004 07:26									#255
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On-topic. Some changes.

Attachment: humm.jpg
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	16-03-2004 07:28									#256
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Again with the painful desktop. Are you trying to make me go blind?

	16-03-2004 07:36									#257
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I love brilliant colors. Adds some life to...life.

	16-03-2004 07:38									#258
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So... I'm too lazy to go back and check. What did you change? Did Drake T. spellcheck it for you?

	16-03-2004 07:40									#259
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Higher resolution icons, different icons for some things.

Plus the battery life is different.

	16-03-2004 07:41									#260
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Actually, the battery monitor is the only thing I did notice.

	16-03-2004 09:59									#261
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quote: Originally posted by Asher This is Fitts' Law: MT = a + b log2(2A/W) where: MT = movement time a,b = regression coefficients A = distance of movement from start to target center W = width of target

Then it's false if it's meant to describe what normal people do.

	16-03-2004 10:06									#262
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Then it's false if it's meant to describe what normal people do.

Fitts' law is "false"?

It's a generalized metric to help determine how quickly somebody can access an element on the screen with the mouse.

It's not meant to describe what normal people do, which is precisely why I was trying to correct you repeatedly...

	16-03-2004 10:08									#263
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This is a silly debate anyway.

There are four different settings in Mac OS X. One is standard anti-aliasing, which is optimal for CRT displays (like mine). The other three methods work using the same method as Cleartype and are best for flat panel displays. Frankly all of them suck compared to the standard anti-aliasing in my view. This is really evident when you need to read Classical Greek, which has all the odd accent marks. Sometimes it's hard to tell which accent is which.

So if you want my view - antialiasing just looks better.

IIRC XP does not anti alias, it uses only one method. That's why it doesn't look so hot on a CRT monitor. To be fair, I've only played with Cleartype on one laptop quite some time ago - I showed my friend how to use it, she hated it though and went back to unsmoothed fonts.

Plus IIRC Cleartype does not work for non-roman fonts. X will smooth anything including all the Oriental characters.

	16-03-2004 10:11									#264
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Fitts' law is "false"? It's a generalized metric to help determine how quickly somebody can access an element on the screen with the mouse.

I thought it was supposed to be much more general than that. Didn't the guy do his experiments in the 50s anyway?

It seems to me that given that some people find moving left to right easier than the converse, it can't just be a matter of size and distance. One could imagine various other complications.

	16-03-2004 10:16									#265
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon This is a silly debate anyway.

It only becomes silly and trivial after you've lost.

quote: IIRC XP does not anti alias, it uses only one method.

This makes no sense whatsoever to me. To me this says that anti-aliasing, by definition, has to "use more than one method"? Plus, this is not true anyway. There is ClearType and there's the standard anti-aliasing that's been around since Win98 as well.

quote: Plus IIRC Cleartype does not work for non-roman fonts. X will smooth anything including all the Oriental characters.

You do not recall correctly.

	16-03-2004 10:18									#266
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how do i turn on this cleartype?

	16-03-2004 10:18									#267
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I thought it was supposed to be much more general than that. Didn't the guy do his experiments in the 50s anyway?

Yes, mid-50s.

quote: It seems to me that given that some people find moving left to right easier than the converse, it can't just be a matter of size and distance. One could imagine various other complications.

There are many other complications. HCI is a very complex field, most people don't understand just how complex it is.

It's harder than it seems to make a genuinely functional and easy-to-use interface.

	16-03-2004 10:20									#268
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It only becomes silly and trivial after you've lost.

Hardly. Rather it is exactly what every thread becomes when you can't admit that you are at odds with the facts.

quote: This makes no sense whatsoever to me. To me this says that anti-aliasing, by definition, has to "use more than one method"? Plus, this is not true anyway. There is ClearType and there's the standard anti-aliasing that's been around since Win98 as well.

No it doesn't. It's just that there are two kinds of font smoothing available on Mac OS X and that the standard one works better than anything else for CRT displays. To my eyes Cleartype is clearly inferior on a CRT display. Otherwise the differences are not that great.

quote: You do not recall correctly.

Apparently not. Still can't remember where I'd heard that.

Anyway, that looks ugly.

	16-03-2004 10:21									#269
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quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX how do i turn on this cleartype?

This page tells you what it is and how it works, very generally: http://www.microsoft.com/typography...sClearType.mspx

Then enable it and calibrate it here: http://www.microsoft.com/typography...ype/tuner/1.htm

	16-03-2004 10:23									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Yes, mid-50s. There are many other complications. HCI is a very complex field, most people don't understand just how complex it is. It's harder than it seems to make a genuinely functional and easy-to-use interface.

Well then, for once we agree.