15-03-2004 13:13									#331
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Follow the dollars. They are used to buy the debt back. There is no lost liquidity.

Kid, From a 10,000ft perspective:

If the goverment taxes Americans to buy back bonds held by foreigners instead of buying a new cars, etc., the foreigners have cash equal to the tax the Americans have paid, and the car it just made expecting to sell to the government stays in inventory rather than being sold.

Surpluses really do adversely affect the economy.

Imran, my major problem with trying to talk to you is that you constantly ignore your opponents arguments, erect strawmen and knock them down, and then, if you still cannot prevail, begin calling your opponent names. This is a constantly recurring pattern in every "discussion" you and I have ever had. It is just a matter of time before you lose it.

	15-03-2004 13:57									#332
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Lawrence, the point of the article I cited was that at times monetary policy simply was not enough, pointing at Japan.

but japan has had deflation which screws with monetary policy. and one reason for this is that the yen is kept artificially low.

	15-03-2004 21:36									#333
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ned Kid, From a 10,000ft perspective: If the goverment taxes Americans to buy back bonds held by foreigners instead of buying a new cars, etc., the foreigners have cash equal to the tax the Americans have paid, and the car it just made expecting to sell to the government stays in inventory rather than being sold.

True, but then you have to go back to whether the surplus is an effect of increased income or not. If it is an effect of increased income then most of the surplus is actually put back into the economy anyway.

	15-03-2004 21:40									#334
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Another reason why fiscal policy can sometimes work better is because it can be allocated more accurately. Monetary policy is at the mercy of the market. Sometimes there aren't viable people to loan to, and I think that is the case in Japan. In the US, many companies are in debt already, and households have a lot of debt too.

	15-03-2004 22:18									#335
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Imran, my major problem with trying to talk to you is that you constantly ignore your opponents arguments, erect strawmen and knock them down, and then, if you still cannot prevail, begin calling your opponent names. This is a constantly recurring pattern in every "discussion" you and I have ever had. It is just a matter of time before you lose it.

Perhaps you should evaluate why this ONLY happens to you and to no one else on this site? Is it because when I've defeated you, you can't even take one step back and admit how wrong you were? Or is it because you are just so amazingly thick-headed?

Remember, I wasn't the one who coined the term 'Nediverse'.

	16-03-2004 02:50									#336
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Another reason why fiscal policy can sometimes work better is because it can be allocated more accurately. Monetary policy is at the mercy of the market. Sometimes there aren't viable people to loan to, and I think that is the case in Japan. In the US, many companies are in debt already, and households have a lot of debt too.

you mean the same market that works fine every day?

	16-03-2004 03:07									#337
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia you mean the same market that works fine every day?

Only in your mind.

	16-03-2004 03:17									#338
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Only in your mind.

but you still havnt explained how you would distribute resources to attain maximization of utility

	16-03-2004 03:41									#339
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia but you still havnt explained how you would distribute resources to attain maximization of utility

You never asked me that question.

Utility isn't of primary concern to me. I only stated that it is of primary concern to economists. My primary concern is justice.

Now do you mean maximizing utility in a capitalist system of some other system?

	16-03-2004 04:08									#340
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

economist want to answer what to produce, how much to produce, and for whom to produce, using limited resources.

	16-03-2004 07:24									#341
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Imran, my major problem with trying to talk to you is that you constantly ignore your opponents arguments, erect strawmen and knock them down, and then, if you still cannot prevail, begin calling your opponent names. This is a constantly recurring pattern in every "discussion" you and I have ever had. It is just a matter of time before you lose it. Perhaps you should evaluate why this ONLY happens to you and to no one else on this site? Is it because when I've defeated you, you can't even take one step back and admit how wrong you were? Or is it because you are just so amazingly thick-headed? Remember, I wasn't the one who coined the term 'Nediverse'.

Imran, If you ever want to be a successful lawyer, you should never, ever call you opponent an idiot. Such behavior is beneath the profession.

	16-03-2004 07:43									#342
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Oh, and bye the way, Imran, the idea that you won an argument by making simply conclusiory statements unsupported by reason or data is, well, .... All I can tell you is that you are going to have a very hard time as a lawyer until you really learn how to debate.

	16-03-2004 07:46									#343
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Imran, If you ever want to be a successful lawyer, you should never, ever call you opponent an idiot. Such behavior is beneath the profession.

You aren't a lawyer, this isn't a court of law, and you are an idiot.

quote: the idea that you won an argument by making simply conclusiory statements unsupported by reason or data

The fact that you are also getting torn to shreds by these 'unsupported' data in another thread should tell you something. It's called common sense. I haven't heard anyone else except you say that deficits, by themselves, cause recession. It's because it is an idiotic assertion.

quote: All I can tell you is that you are going to have a very hard time as a lawyer until you really learn how to debate.

I do... at least anywhere outside the Nedaverse. Hell, I even got a few votes in the Best Debater Poll .

	16-03-2004 08:05									#344
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Imran, you're winner!

	16-03-2004 08:22									#345
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Imran, If you ever want to be a successful lawyer, you should never, ever call you opponent an idiot. Such behavior is beneath the profession. You aren't a lawyer, this isn't a court of law, and you are an idiot. quote: the idea that you won an argument by making simply conclusiory statements unsupported by reason or data The fact that you are also getting torn to shreds by these 'unsupported' data in another thread should tell you something. It's called common sense. I haven't heard anyone else except you say that deficits, by themselves, cause recession. It's because it is an idiotic assertion. quote: All I can tell you is that you are going to have a very hard time as a lawyer until you really learn how to debate. I do... at least anywhere outside the Nedaverse. Hell, I even got a few votes in the Best Debater Poll .

I am a lawyer and you have a lot to learn. If I were asked my opinion on whether you were qualified to be a lawyer, I would now have to say no.

As to the economic question, you once again have mistated what I have said. Another strawman erected and knocked down. Irman the God of debate!

	16-03-2004 08:25									#346
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: If I were asked my opinion on whether you were qualified to be a lawyer, I would now have to say no.

Because you are trained to say so based on conversations on a Civilization board, where your views are considered so out of the loop we have coined the term 'Nedaverse' to describe them.

Yeah... your opinion matters one way or the other to me .

If you are a lawyer, I'd like to warn your clients.

quote: As to the economic question, you once again have mistated what I have said.

I absolutely have not! This as in the other thread you have stated that surpluses, by themselves, even as a result of simply increased incomes lead to recessions. As does that silly link you posted. Perhaps you need to step back and realize what you are saying for once in your life?

	16-03-2004 08:35									#347
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: If I were asked my opinion on whether you were qualified to be a lawyer, I would now have to say no. Because you are trained to say so based on conversations on a Civilization board, where your views are considered so out of the loop we have coined the term 'Nedaverse' to describe them. Yeah... your opinion matters one way or the other to me . If you are a lawyer, I'd like to warn your clients. quote: As to the economic question, you once again have mistated what I have said. I absolutely have not! This as in the other thread you have stated that deficts, by themselves, even as a result of simply increased incomes lead to recessions. As does that silly link you posted. Perhaps you need to step back and realize what you are saying for once in your life?

Imran, solely on the economic issue, your summary of what I said is so far afield from my argument as to be ludicrous. It brings into question your reading comprehension or your basic intelligence.

	16-03-2004 08:37									#348
	Increase Your PM Length

Still backtracking Ned? Guess I expected no less of you.

May I quote you?

quote: I don't have any idea why you ignore the basic principle that deficits stimulate the private economy and that surpluses harm it.

Backtrack from that.

	16-03-2004 08:40									#349
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In addition:

quote: One can see the spike in revenues as a percentage of GDP is what forced the economy into the tank.

quote: not only did revenues grow, but so did revenues as a percentage of GDP. This forced the budget into surplus. Just as it went into surplus, the wheels came off.

I think I got your fairly pegged.

	16-03-2004 08:43									#350
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Imran unless my reading comprehension skills are amiss, you have mistyped.

In the above:

"I absolutely have not! This as in the other thread you have stated that deficts, by themselves, even as a result of simply increased incomes lead to recessions."

whilst Ned say:
"I don't have any idea why you ignore the basic principle that deficits stimulate the private economy and that surpluses harm it."

These don't match. Ned says deficits = good; surplus = bad (lead to recession)

Imran say, Ned say deficit = bad = lead to recesssion..

Actually Imran say deficts = bad which probably explains the difference.

Me go now eat food and drink beer.

	16-03-2004 08:48									#351
	Got spare money?

Ooops, I did mean surpluses... thanks.

	16-03-2004 12:05									#352
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Ned Charles, can you give me link to the history of the steam engine you seem to be quoting? Also, I think the critical thing about honoring contracts is the rule of law. Babylon and Rome were known for the rule of law. One was a dictatorship. The other was not.

Well it was in a book talking about what Islam past on to the West in sciences and in other areas.

	16-03-2004 20:28									#353
	Put an end to popups!

Well, Charles, it had a lot of discussion about the steam engine I had never heard of before. It gave me some suspicion that our own histories are somewhat European-centric.

	18-03-2004 03:08									#354
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, Charles, it had a lot of discussion about the steam engine I had never heard of before. It gave me some suspicion that our own histories are somewhat European-centric.

Copyright and patient for invertion law only came about 1600's. The onlly patient where picture on shields and armour nameing the person and family who wore then and own then.In each kingdom and then in Europe than center regulater office was set up to govern these patient grants to the nobleibly.

	18-03-2004 04:07									#355
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Ned Well, Charles, it had a lot of discussion about the steam engine I had never heard of before. It gave me some suspicion that our own histories are somewhat European-centric.

Bush war on terror is than Religious war on Islam just ask any muslim in the Middle East and Southeast Asia and Africa and South and Center America and Europe and North America. Nap make the same mistake when he occup Germany with his armies.