07-03-2004 09:11									#1
	If Bush is considered 'What is Republican'... Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

...does that make me a Democrat?

I've been a Republican all my political life. I'm a Bob Dole / John McCain type of Republican, you know for campaign finance reform and for a balanced budget (especially with this debt load) whenever possible. This super-duper extra spending on defense and social programs by the Bush Administration is NOT my kind of Republicanism! This pandering to the Religious Right is NOT my kind of Republicanism.

I can only hope that Bush doesn't push the moderate Republicans to the Democrats just like the Civil Rights Act pushed the Souther Democrat to the Republicans.

	07-03-2004 09:15									#2
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I dunno. Voting for Kerry doesn't seem like something a moderate Republican would do. With him being a higher rated liberal than even Ted Kennedy and all. I'd think they'd be more at home with the Libertarians.

	07-03-2004 09:22									#3
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Yeah, and vote for wackos who want to abolish the income tax? I mean, I'd vote for Steve Forbes, who simply wants a flat tax, but no income tax?

And Kerry with a Republican Congress ensures nothing gets done = bliss. The fact most people seem to miss about the Clinton years is that the who gridlock thing made the whole 90s boom possible .

Bush just sucks monkey ass. I swear I'd even vote for Ted Kennedy or Ralph Nader over Bush.

	07-03-2004 09:25									#4
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BTW when did you decide that you were "always" a McCain type Republican when you didn't support him in 00?

	07-03-2004 09:33									#5
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I realized sometime afterwards that mainstream had really blinded me in those primaries. Looking back, I was like... hmmm, I liked McCain better. Hell, during the campaign, I wrestled with backing McCain. Guess the party (cue imperial death star music) was too powerful.

Remember, I was knee deep in it at the time as well.

	07-03-2004 09:37									#6
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I dunno. Voting for Kerry doesn't seem like something a moderate Republican would do. With him being a higher rated liberal than even Ted Kennedy and all. I'd think they'd be more at home with the Libertarians.

I swear that despite what many think I am a republican moderate. And I wouldn't even think of voting for John Kerry who is a very left wing leaning liberal. You're right he is more left leaning then Ted Kennedy.

So Imran, you are willing to vote for the left over Bush? What kind of moderate are you? You aren't no moderate. I'd vote for Bush over Kerry because Bush is much closer to my views (with the exception of gay marriage).

	07-03-2004 09:41									#7
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Dude, you are gay. The Republican Party 'base' under Bush wouldn't even vote for you in any capacity whatsoever. Are you telling me that you'd vote for someone who is against who you are?

quote: you are willing to vote for the left over Bush? What kind of moderate are you?

Left over Right (ie, Bush) in one election makes you not a moderate? Especially since I voted Right over Left in the last one.

Of course now I realize I made a mistake and loath Bush, but that's something different.

	07-03-2004 09:48									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I realized sometime afterwards that mainstream had really blinded me in those primaries.

I remember feeling the same way when I actually did some research into McCain-Feingold. Then I was glad his candidacy crashed and burned. Seriously though what were the myths you had about him? I remember the mainstream press being a little enamored with him and his Straight Talk Express at the time.

	07-03-2004 09:49									#9
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Oh, I had half bought into the McCain is really a liberal bullshit that the Bush team was trotting out.

Hell, I was really willing to solidly back McCain went he came out against the Christian Coalition. I hate those ****ers.

	07-03-2004 09:53									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oh, I had half bought into the McCain is really a liberal bullshit that the Bush team was trotting out.

On certain issues he is. Campaign Finance for instance. How is that BS? The main question is how much you view those issues from a conservative perspective.

	07-03-2004 09:56									#11
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See, the thing was they took those certain issues and then said he is a liberal OVERALL! Which was certainly not the case. His voting record has been very conservative. I would love to have a President McCain right about now.

President Bush is testing my faith in my party (kinda like how some Catholic's faith is being tested by the pedophile priests).

	07-03-2004 09:59									#12
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Maybe I'll start my own moderate-right party. We'll run Bob Dole every election, even after he's dead .

	07-03-2004 10:01									#13
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quote: came out against the Christian Coalition. I hate those ****ers.

If you hate those ****ers, why do you want to cede control of the Republican party to them?

	07-03-2004 10:02									#14
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Imran, I used to be the same way. I initially supported McCain. In fact, I remember quite vividly when I was talking with my Democrat roommate in college about politics. We were halfway through going back and forth on a decent political discussion when McCain appeared on CSPAN for a speech. Low and behold, his speech used the same words and ideology that I had just used when speaking to my roommate. I mean the EXACT same words and ideology.

My roommate turned to me and said "So I guess you follow McCain pretty closely?". I turned to him and said: "Actually, I've never heard the guy speak, nor have I followed him" which was the truth. His speech was nearly the same one I had used when talking to my roommate.

While I was a McCainiac for a short time I did start to dislike him when he started speaking out against Bush and the rest of the Party at the time. Part of being a politician is knowing when to fight and when to gather allies and it seemed that McCain was doing to much fighting at the time. So then I turned to Bush, mostly because he seemed like he was going to be the nominee. Bush had the usual mantra of Republicanism so I went with it.

Nowadays I'm sort of up in the air between "Republican idealism" and reality. Yes I believe in the major points of the party - ie. responsible spending, big tent, individualism and independence, etc... But in todays world I also believe in fighting the good fight. That is, taking out the bad guys.

Do I believe Bush invaded Iraq just because he thought they had WMDs? Yes, kinda. Do I think it was a perfect reason for the invasion? No, not really.

What I do believe, and the reason why I support Bush and his big spending, is because he is the only president in the past few years who has the balls to stand up against the evil people of the world. He took out the Taliban, he took out Saddam, and he made the lackluster politicians of the world realize that endless diplomacy is not a means to solving the worlds problems. Bottom line, he took on the bastards of the world and made them sit up and realize that their days are numbered.

Today I don't see dictators and despotic regimes every time I turn on the news. I see people putting their lives back together and hoping for a better world.

Do I support big spending? No, not if it's unneccesary. Do I support taking the fight to the bad guys? Yes. Bush is a Republican in wartime. If Sept 11th hadn't happened then I'd probably think he was an idiot, leading the party to ruin. I wasn't impressed with his Reagan-esque flouting in Texas, I thought it was a rip-off.

What I am impressed with is his independence and having the gall to lead the U.S., against popular world opinion, into the breach. That's why I support him. He didn't take a poll (like Bubba) to decide his stance, he just made his decision and followed through. That's my definition of a leader.

And yes Giancarlo, I think his Gay-marriage stance is retarded and goes against the mantra of the Republican Party. I support gay marriage, just as long as the involved are good, well meaning people.

	07-03-2004 10:08									#15
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quote: If you hate those ****ers, why do you want to cede control of the Republican party to them?

What? I'd rather see them kicked out of the party, personally.

--

Harry: Thanks for the post. I think you made some good points. I do like his kicking the crap out of dictatorships, but I think it's dumb to go after Saddam and then stop there. We should do more if the goal is get rid of brutal dictatorships. We should speak out against Saudi Arabia, etc.

I HATE that he totally stuck a middle finger to the world. I mean do you think France and Russia were interested in fighting Iraq in 1991? NO, of course not! But Bush, the elder, was a good diplomat. He got them to go along with it. Bush, the younger, has been a disaster in that which his father was so good (btw, I LOVE George Herbert Walker Bush... thought he was a great President).

	07-03-2004 10:15									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I do like his kicking the crap out of dictatorships, ...

That's the reason why I'm somewhat tempted to vote Libertarian myself this year. It's a stupid policy and there are a hundred craphole places where such an effort could lead our military.

	07-03-2004 10:17									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I HATE that he totally stuck a middle finger to the world. I mean do you think France and Russia were interested in fighting Iraq in 1991? NO, of course not! But Bush, the elder, was a good diplomat. He got them to go along with it. Bush, the younger, has been a disaster in that which his father was so good (btw, I LOVE George Herbert Walker Bush... thought he was a great President).

Hey, you're welcome. A few vodka tonics and I'm all gushy

Yeah, I wish Bush W had tried to make a better case for the war. I really like having other countries on our side, but really, France and Russia were all against us going in. If a diplomatic resolution was to be reached it would have been long after the invasion would have started.

The fact is, Bush didn't state any great reasons for attacking Iraq. The WMD info was iffy at best. Though we all new this guy was bad and quite frankly I'm not going to regret what happened. I know the future of Iraq is brighter now and we have one less bad guy with a gun to worry about.

I don't think Bush is the perfect representative for the GOP, but he's the best we've got at the moment. And Kerry? Just another incumbent challenger spouting off anythin that can be deemed anti-bush. He has no real platform, just "I hate Bush, let's get'um"

	07-03-2004 10:21									#18
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I think if we had waited until after the summer to go to war with Iraq, France and Russia would have been more muted in criticism. There seemed to be a RUSH to war. Remember in 1991, GHW Bush gave Saddam a really long time to get out of Kuwait.

If Bush said we are going into Iraq because Saddam is an ******* and we are going to strike a blow against tyranny and dictatorship, I think that would have been closer to the real reasons for war and gotten more support (especially since we got no WMD).

And I think it unfair to say Kerry has no real platform. He's got plenty of issues he's plugged along the trail. And many more on his website, laid out in meticulous order and detail.

	07-03-2004 10:21									#19
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quote: I'd rather see them kicked out of the party, personally.

How could you call for that being a member of the libertarians, or such? It's only those inside the party, who will have any influence over where the party goes.

If enough people tell Bush, precisely what you are telling us here, he is going to have to accomodate them in order to be elected.

Tell him you loved his daddy, but are not too sure about him, and that should make him pause somewhat.

	07-03-2004 10:23									#20
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imran, while i'm fundamentally opposed to the idea of having a political party, i wouldn't mind joining you against the democrats and the republicans.

that's what they are. they are not "repugs", they are not "democRATs", or any of that shite. they are simply what they are--havens for those who refuse to actually think about the issues.

	07-03-2004 10:24									#21
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quote: And I think it unfair to say Kerry has no real platform. He's got plenty of issues he's plugged along the trail. And many more on his website, laid out in meticulous order and detail.

Yeah, but can he articulate them? He's made so many waffles just over the course of the primaries, one has difficulty sorting out where he stands.

Case in point, does Kerry support or reject the NAFTA agreement?

	07-03-2004 10:24									#22
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Make Bush pause? PLEASE! He doesn't care. He realizes that moderates are stuck with him and will vote for him while holding their noses. Many moderate Republicans aren't taking the step I'm taking, because they believe that Hell, there is nothing else we can do. I'm voting for the other side, because I don't like my party's President. Many other Republicans are thinking of voting libertarian. However, they are scared of losing power over appointing judges (which is a major thing, of course).

	07-03-2004 10:25									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Dude, you are gay. The Republican Party 'base' under Bush wouldn't even vote for you in any capacity whatsoever. Are you telling me that you'd vote for someone who is against who you are? quote: you are willing to vote for the left over Bush? What kind of moderate are you? Left over Right (ie, Bush) in one election makes you not a moderate? Especially since I voted Right over Left in the last one. Of course now I realize I made a mistake and loath Bush, but that's something different.

I'm not talking about me.

I am just saying you aren't moderate. You are as left wing as Chegitz and Agathon.

	07-03-2004 10:27									#24
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Ok Fezzie poo... don't worry, I can play your game as well, Mr. Fascist .

	07-03-2004 10:29									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ok Fezzie poo... don't worry, I can play your game as well, Mr. Fascist .

Really why did you have to bring up me being gay? Does it have to do with the cute rainbow flag I have as my avatar?

I'm no fascist. I am the real republican moderate on this forum.

	07-03-2004 10:29									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo You are as left wing as Chegitz and Agathon.

That's funny.

	07-03-2004 10:30									#27
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imran, as liberal as che?

jeebus, i'm left of imran, but i'm nowhere near aggie or che....

	07-03-2004 10:30									#28
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quote: Case in point, does Kerry support or reject the NAFTA agreement?

Supports... I believe he voted for it in '94 and hasn't said he wants to repeal it. In fact, Kucinich hammed the major primary opponents for ALL being for NAFTA.

	07-03-2004 10:30									#29
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and fez, you're about as a moderate republican as che and ag are moderate democrats.

	07-03-2004 10:32									#30
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Indeed... it's hilarious for Fez to say what he did.

I'm sure che would like another soldier to his cause, but he knows I'm not it. It is precisely BECAUSE I'm a Republican moderate that this choice tortures me so.