10-03-2004 20:34									#121
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McSorley was convicted of assault, but did not get any jail time.

	10-03-2004 21:25									#122
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Dino Ciccarelli got 1 day in the 80's IIRC.

	10-03-2004 21:52									#123
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Correct, Richelieu.

	10-03-2004 22:24									#124
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One thing's for sure, Coach's Corner will be interesting this Saturday.

	10-03-2004 22:40									#125
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quote: Living in Hong Kong, I have to watch ESPN coverage of hockey games. One thing I've noticed is that the ESPN commentators really play up the fighting. If a fight starts, they're going "Hey fight, fantastic, now the game is interesting, oh look at that hit, blah, blah, blah." That's completely different from Canadian hockey coverage, which, IIRC, rarely shows the actual fighting. That partially explains the different Canadian-American perspectives about hockey fights.

Hmmm... that is very interesting. Yeah, on ESPN they go hog wild over fights (the guys annoucing it are Canadians, though). Still, I think Guy's point stands. College hockey is a much cleaner game all around.

	10-03-2004 22:41									#126
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does anyone have a link for a video of the hit? I am trying to show my bro back in the states.

	10-03-2004 23:19									#127
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quote: It was worse than the McSorley incident.

C'mon!

You swing a stick at someone, you could kill them.

Not even close, giving him a sucker punch. No intent to injure.

	10-03-2004 23:48									#128
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quote: Originally posted by vlad does anyone have a link for a video of the hit? I am trying to show my bro back in the states.

It's on the espn site (http://msn.espn.go.com).

	11-03-2004 00:15									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi C'mon! You swing a stick at someone, you could kill them. Not even close, giving him a sucker punch. No intent to injure.

Being on somebodies back and driving them into hard ice can kill them too.

Bertuzzi should be out the rest of the season and post season.

You complain that they shouldn't punish the Canucks, and yet, the Avs are punished too.

They lose a player for the season.

And for the record Bertuzzi has more than 3 times the penalty minutes that Moore has.

122 to 37.

Moore was dirty but Bertuzzi wasn't?

ACK!

	11-03-2004 00:20									#130
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Latest news story from tsn.ca



TORONTO (CP w/TSN.ca staff) - The NHL disciplinary hearing into Todd Bertuzzi's attack on Steve Moore is now underway following a delay Wednesday morning after some of the parties involved asked for more time to prepare.



"(The hearing) will take place later in the day." NHL vice-president Gary Meagher told reporters 30-minutes after the hearing was supposed to begin at 9 am at the NHL's offices in Toronto.



The meeting is being held before NHL vice-president Colin Campbell, the league's disciplinarian. NHLPA officials will also attend.



Related Info
What They're Saying

Bertuzzi is present at the hearing despite speculation that he would not appear due to the threat of legal action in the case.



Marty McSorley opted not to appear for his NHL hearing in 2000 due to the threat of legal action against him. Despite his absence, the NHL suspended him for one year for hitting Vancouver's Donald Brashear in the head with his stick. That stands as the longest suspension to date for an on-ice infraction in the NHL.



"I have no time frame on when a decision might be made," Meagher added.



Moore was hospitalized with a fractured neck and a concussion after he was sucker-punched by Bertuzzi in the third period of a 9-2 Colorado win Monday night at Vancouver's GM Place.



The Avs forward landed face first on the ice, with Bertuzzi on top of him.



There has been bad blood between the two teams since a hit by Moore in a game Feb. 16 sidelined Canucks captain Markus Naslund for three games with a concussion. Moore was not penalized on the play.



Outside the Air Canada Centre on Wednesday, two fans waited along with reporters, who interviewed both in the absence of any other news.



One wore a Canucks shirt and hockey gloves with a sign taped to a hockey stick that said "Colin, Ernie says free Bert."



The sign had pictures of Muppets Ernie and Bert as well as a Bertuzzi photo, newspaper clipping and hockey card



The other held up a sign asking for a four-year ban of Bertuzzi and a fine of $3.2 million.



The average suspension handed down by the NHL for incidents similar to Bertuzzi's has been 11 games.



Matt Johnson of the Los Angeles Kings was handed a 12 game suspension for deliberately injuring Jeff Beukeboom of the New York Rangers in 1998. Beukeboom's subsequent head injury eventually forced him out of the game.



Philadelphia goalie Ron Hextall also received a 12 game suspension for attacking Montreal's Chris Chelios during a playoff game in 1989 while Owen Nolan, then of the San Jose Sharks, got 11 games for hitting Grant Marshall in the head in 2001.



Winnipeg's Jimmy Mann got 10 games for sucker-punching Pittsburgh's Paul Gardner in 1982 while Ruslan Salei of Anaheim was hit with a 10 game suspension for hitting Mike Modano of the Dallas Stars from behind in 1999.

	11-03-2004 00:44									#131
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I just took a look at "the hit" and well I expected something worse...granted maybe there were things that I dont know...like did he continue to hit him on the ice, and from the video I saw I couldnt tell so understand that first...and second, I dont think from the video that I saw that he drove his head into the ice...I think that he got knocked out and fell funny. You can tell that the punch made him go limp and it was just Bert's weight that "drove" him into the ice...now, I am not saying what he did was right but I have seen alot worse...the main outrage in this case, to me, is the outcome not the act....

	11-03-2004 01:39									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer And to you folks who want to keep fighting in the game: I would like to cordially invite you to a University of Michigan Wolverines vs. Michigan State University Spartans hockey game. (This is the rivalry that produced the "Cold War", the outdoor game attended by 76,000+ fans a couple years ago.) These teams do not like each other at all, not by even the loosest possible definition of the word. They despise each other. We fans despise each other. It is as intense an experience as I've ever had outside of the hospital. There are no fights. There are no suckerpunches from behind. There is no spearing. There is no intentionally swinging a stick at another player's head. And it is tremendous, incredible, beautiful hockey. Hockey does not need fighting. Give it a try. There is no sport on this planet that can compare.

Hockey doesn't need fighting, but it's better with it. The pussification of hockey is part of the problem. In the old days, there were tough guys who fought other tough guys. The instigator penalty is the biggest bunch of BS. With enforcers lurking, players behaved themselves... or else they faced the threat of fighting a tough guy. Now, players are playing more dirty because they know there aren't consequences. A guy like Bertuzzi wouldn't have cheap shotted Moore if there were enforcers lurking.

hockey hippie peaceniks

Bertuzzi should receive AT LEAST a year suspension.

	11-03-2004 04:42									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Not even close, giving him a sucker punch. No intent to injure.

You crack my ass up, you crazy bastard.

	11-03-2004 04:44									#134
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Hockey doesn't need fighting, but it's better with it. The pussification of hockey is part of the problem. In the old days, there were tough guys who fought other tough guys. The instigator penalty is the biggest bunch of BS. With enforcers lurking, players behaved themselves... or else they faced the threat of fighting a tough guy. Now, players are playing more dirty because they know there aren't consequences. A guy like Bertuzzi wouldn't have cheap shotted Moore if there were enforcers lurking.

This is exactly the macho *****-waving bullshit that has gotten us into this mess in the first place.


EDIT: One other thing, Sava... if fighting would have solved this problem, then why did Bertuzzi go after Moore? After all, Moore had gotten in a fight earlier in the game to begin with.

	11-03-2004 05:07									#135
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Exactly. Clearly, fighting had nothing to do with this.

	11-03-2004 05:18									#136
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quote: Moore was dirty but Bertuzzi wasn't?

Sucker puching is dirty. The hit on Naslund was questionable.

	11-03-2004 05:21									#137
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quote: I would suggest Bertuzzi may play in the NHL again when (and if) Moore does.

Fair enough.

I would abide by that. Same for Moore, would have been nice.

	11-03-2004 05:21									#138
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On a lighter (kinda) note:

The Oilers play the Avs tonight, and Colorado is expected to start Salo! Should be tense, but also make for some good hockey.

It'll be a tough one, but we'll try and tip the scales here.

	11-03-2004 05:24									#139
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quote: Originally posted by cinch On a lighter (kinda) note: The Oilers play the Avs tonight, and Colorado is expected to start Salo! Should be tense, but also make for some good hockey. It'll be a tough one, but we'll try and tip the scales here.

Let's go Oilers!

I can't believe I just said that.... the last time I used that cheer was when the Canucks played the Rangers in 94.

	11-03-2004 08:04									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Exactly. Clearly, fighting had nothing to do with this.

Close, but not quite.


Clearly, fighting did nothing to prevent this, despite the claims of you pro-pugilism people.

	11-03-2004 08:05									#141
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Fair enough. I would abide by that. Same for Moore, would have been nice.

Except Moore didn't do anything against the rules, Ben. It was a hard, but clean, hit.

If you can't see the different between that and what Bertuzzi did, you are completely hopeless.

	11-03-2004 08:06									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Close, but not quite. Clearly, fighting did nothing to prevent this, despite the claims of you pro-pugilism people.

I never claimed fighting would have prevented this.

I've asserted that banning fighting would not have prevented this, which is a different argument, since -- as you've established -- it has nothing to do with fighting.

	11-03-2004 08:11									#143
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quote: Let's go Oilers! I can't believe I just said that.... the last time I used that cheer was when the Canucks played the Rangers in 94.

Did you cheer for Vancouver over Toronto?

	11-03-2004 08:12									#144
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quote: Except Moore didn't do anything against the rules, Ben. It was a hard, but clean, hit. If you can't see the different between that and what Bertuzzi did, you are completely hopeless.

There is a difference, which I acknowledged in the post above the one you chose to quote.

Nowhere do I advocate that Moore should have received the same penalty as Bert.

	11-03-2004 08:14									#145
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I just saw Bertuzzi's statement on SportsNet... As you know, I think Bert should get suspended for the rest of the year. However, I'm not as disgusted with him as I was, initially. He seems genuinely sorry, and I think he'll be able to turn things around... Next season.

Anyway, it was a classy statement by Bertuzzi, and he wasn't afraid to show a little emotion. It's good to see. I didn't want to hate the man.

	11-03-2004 08:45									#146
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Did you cheer for Vancouver over Toronto?

Are you kidding? I hate Leaf fans... they're almost as bad as Habs fans.

quote: I'm a loyal hockey fan I love the Vancouver Canucks And I don't care if they win They'll always be worth the bucks And I don't care if they bumble or stumble Or if they fumble the pucks 'Cuz I'm a loyal hockey fan I love the Vancouver Canucks!

	11-03-2004 08:51									#147
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Good for Bert.

	11-03-2004 09:30									#148
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I just realized that with the Ron Francis trade, I'm just 2 players away from no longer feeling morally bound to cheer for Carolina. Glen Wesley and Jeff O'Neill are the only Hurricanes players left who actually wore Whalers uniforms...

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	11-03-2004 11:24									#149
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All this whining and bleating about violence in hockey is getting annoying.

We're talkin gabout a sport played in a confined area with huge competitive guys carrying hockey sticks. Fights are bound to happen, and every once in a while some idiot goes way overboard.

But it's not like the NHL turns a blind eye to the fights. If a player gets into a fight, they get penalised. If they go overboard like Bertuzzi then they get suspended and that means losing major salary bucks.

Banning fighting won't stop the fights from happening. The NHL suspended McSorley for a year, and did that stop Bertuzzi from doing what he did? No.

Anyways, the only way to ban players from fighting is to penalise them for fighting, and that already occurs.

And it's got nothing to do with a "culture of violence" unless you think that hard hits = violence. In which case the only way to get rid of this "culture" is to ban body checks.

Bertuzzi committed a despicable, cowardly act and he should be heavily penalised for what he did. But let's keep this in perspective.

	11-03-2004 16:42									#150
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A talk radio host, who started as a sportscaster, said that "Bert" should be heavily fined, kept out as long as Moore has to stay out (and if it's permanent, so be it), and then serve whatever suspension is handed down.

All in addition to the results of any criminal prosecution.


I think this is about right.