11-03-2004 20:32									#61
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Franz Beckenbauer and Carlos Alberto.

	11-03-2004 20:35									#62
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins I can't believe that no-ones the creator of the poll hasn't mentioned the Spartans at Thermopylae. That was like... 300 vs... quarter of a million.

Didn't the Persians have archers?

	11-03-2004 20:53									#63
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Didn't the Persians have archers?

Sure they did.

Oddly the Spartans never got killed by them until after they were surrounded on both sides and the Greek Allies had left. Standing their ground under those conditions would be, for us, superhumanly gutsy.

I wonder if Xerxes just never considered using those archers until then.

	11-03-2004 20:55									#64
	Increase Your PM Length

The man who betrayed the Greeks, Ephialtes, has come to mean nightmare in Greek.

	11-03-2004 21:03									#65
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet Damn. I thought this was going to be a soccer thread.

Me too dammit, I was already making a list

	11-03-2004 21:21									#66
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The Japanese, we didn't hold anything back from them and they held us off for quite a while.

The same could not be said of the VC.

	11-03-2004 21:24									#67
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Whoha The Japanese, we didn't hold anything back from them and they held us off for quite a while.

Uh, sure, but then they folded like a cheap suit when they started getting nuked. :

	11-03-2004 21:28									#68
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi How about the Germans in the first world war? They surrendered only when they ran out of food supplies.

But the weren't really defending, were they? They were on French soil at the time...

	11-03-2004 21:28									#69
	Remove this text

For those of you who haven't read it yet, a short story about Thermopylae written by Laz. It is a gem in my opinion.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=75808

	11-03-2004 21:30									#70
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The Alamo was just fanatic stupidity, and they didn't even put up that good of a fight. They lost badly.

	11-03-2004 21:51									#71
	Re: Re: Who were the greatest defenders of all time? Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by MrFun I was down to a choice between Stalingrad of World War II, and the above choice. So in the end, I voted for the Vietcong. They were a repressive regime in their own right, but in addition to the strengths you mentioned above, the Vietcong were able to effectively use political propaganda of anti-colonialism in connunction with their military strategy. Many United States advisors also failed to grasp that this war could not be won by conventional means, and were unable to effectively counteract Vietcong's strategy.

I am sorry Mr. Fun, I think everybody in the Johnson administration knew that we could not win the war without invading North Vietnam. The strategy pursued by Johnson and the military was to not "lose" the war.

McNamara was in favor of pulling out of Vietnam as early as 1963. He apparently knew that there was no way to win the war without an invasion of North Vietnam, which at the time was politically unacceptable not only to North Vietnam's Communist allies, but also to American allies.

	11-03-2004 21:56									#72
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So did no one get my little joke? Perhaps it wasnt funny? Or perhaps y'all are to ignorant to understand it?

	11-03-2004 21:57									#73
	Put an end to popups!

And the American people in general-why risk the US to save the South Vietnamese dictatorship.

	11-03-2004 21:59									#74
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by GePap And the American people in general-why risk the US to save the South Vietnamese dictatorship.

Hadn't you heard? Communism is EvilTM

	11-03-2004 22:03									#75
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The Spartans, followed by the knights in Malta, followed by the RAF in 1940.

-Arrian

	11-03-2004 22:14									#76
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Franz Beckenbauer

Dammit, I was going to name him

	11-03-2004 22:18									#77
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Franz Beckenbauer Dammit, I was going to name him

Beckenbauer was a pu$$ycat, next to Nobby Stiles. Now that was a hard-as-nails (and skillful too) defender. Played a long time ago for ManU (as fullback.)

	11-03-2004 22:56									#78
	Got spare money?

The Spartan-II's at Reach.

	12-03-2004 04:04									#79
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by GePap And the American people in general-why risk the US to save the South Vietnamese dictatorship.

Well, GePap, Goldwater made Vietnam a gigantic issue in the 1964 elections. He continuously asked Johnson what he was trying to do in Vietnam, what was it is strategy? He was asking how we could commit troops too a war without any discussion of what are objective was, nor any discussion of how to achieve that objective.

You know what happened. Johnson simply ridiculed Goldwater as a warmonger. He ran that famous ad of the girl pulling petals off the flower, counting down to zero and, upon reaching zero, Kaboom!, an atomic bomb explodes.

Years later, many people who had voted against Goldwater realized that he was right. We should never commit US combat troops without an adequately defined objective and a relatively clear exit strategy. The people of the United States simply assumed that Johnson had a plan. It wasn't until Bobby Kennedy broke with Lyndon Johnson in 1968 that Lyndon Johnson was finally faced with the fact that the American people realized he had no plan except to beg the North Vietnamese for mercy. Thus he effectively resigned, and left Vietnam to his successor.

	12-03-2004 04:29									#80
	Tired of ads?

Talking about great defenders, how about Cincinatus at the bridge?

	12-03-2004 04:40									#81
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: But the weren't really defending, were they? They were on French soil at the time..

True.

They were so good at defending, that they never had to defend on their own terrain.

Took a blockade to relieve the front.

	12-03-2004 06:00									#82
	Inflate your Upload Space

I voted Byzantines. They held their ground for over 1,000 years. Although I probably would've said Spartans if if was originally offered.
Could add the Swiss. They had awesome pikemen, and to this day no one ****s with them. Not getting attacked in the 1st place is A+ defence.
Americans at Midway. I know, they weren't that badly outgunned (based on carrier power), but they handed the Japanese a resounding defeat.
The Athenians at Salamis.

	12-03-2004 06:07									#83
	Tired of ads?

I have to give a special mention to the British defenders at Rorke's Drift in Natal, Jan. 22-23 1879. The Royal Engineers fought off a vastly superior force of Zulus. Despite their superior weaponry, the odds were still very much against the Brits. The fight produced the most Victoria Crosses ever in a single instance of combat.

	12-03-2004 06:12									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Hating commies is common-sense, not propaganda.

Oh, Drake... and I thought we had an understanding...

	12-03-2004 06:18									#85
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by MrBaggins Beckenbauer was a pu$$ycat, next to Nobby Stiles. Now that was a hard-as-nails (and skillful too) defender. Played a long time ago for ManU (as fullback.)

But on the world stage as a half back.

Beckenbauer is without doubt at least the equal of any other defender who has played the game. Perhaps only Fachetti, Carlos Alberto and Moore rate with him.

	12-03-2004 06:21									#86
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Beckenbauer was a pu$$ycat, next to Nobby Stiles. Now that was a hard-as-nails (and skillful too) defender. Played a long time ago for ManU (as fullback.)

This is blaphemous! Unless you are a ManU fan, I take it?

	12-03-2004 06:30									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I also take it that most of you people that didn't pick the Japanese don't know about what their plans were to fight an Invasion off, or how they managed to keep their preparations secret causing the US to greatly underestimate what they had in reserve.

	12-03-2004 06:34									#88
	Remove this text

please explain

	12-03-2004 07:57									#89
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Beckenbauer was a pu$$ycat, next to Nobby Stiles. Now that was a hard-as-nails (and skillful too) defender. Played a long time ago for ManU (as fullback.) This is blaphemous! Unless you are a ManU fan, I take it?

Yep... since forever.

	12-03-2004 08:07									#90
	Full PM-box? Change here!

ManUre. Ugh!