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tammander
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Outermost
Feb 2004
time: 06:34
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Perdonad por ser muy extenso y por estar en inglés (es facil de leer) pero fijaos lo que piensa "la perfida alvión" de los españoles, en concreto de los madrileños.
quote:
Listen to the silent crowds
Madeleine Bunting
Saturday March 13, 2004
The Guardian
It was not enough for the office workers of Madrid to observe a moment of silence, they had to be seen doing so: they stood in the rain on the street. The stoical, wordless dignity of the Spanish people's solidarity has been profoundly moving and inspiring. Just as terrorism uses modern media - what Jean Baudrillard called the "spectacle of the deed" - to publicise itself through the horrific images of blood, death and twisted metal, so the Spanish people instantaneously found a way to counter that violent visual communication with images of spontaneous, mass public demonstrations of solidarity.
New York discovered something of this public spirit, too, after 9/11, but it took longer; the shock was greater to a city that had no experience of terrorism (unlike, sadly, Spain). There were no instant mass demonstrations; the flowers and candles - now a convention of grief all over the globe - were attached to letters and photographs, and the mourning was personalised. Every country mourns in its own way.
In Spain, the outpouring of sympathy didn't wait for names: it was for somebody's son, somebody's daughter, somebody's wife or mother, husband or father. The very anonymity underlined the simplicity of this kind of human solidarity; it was enough that lives were lost. Whose lives they were will come later. It seemed so quintessentially Spanish; the country of the paseo, the promenade, has an instinctively social culture, and its faith in public solidarity has proved vibrant at the very point of most threat. Fear of more attacks could have forced the Spanish off the streets, could have scared them into their homes. Instead, with a remarkable defiance of the terrorists who deliberately targeted the crowded commuter trains, the crowds refused to be cowed.
Cities have become our battlegrounds; where once they were places of safety to which countryfolk retreated in times of war, they are now where the war is conducted. After 3/11 every citizen of a western European city, of Paris, Rome, Berlin or London, nervously enters the packed tube, the busy commuter train or the high-rise office block. Fear could empty the city and cauterise the mass transit systems that are its lifeblood. One is haunted by an image of shut-down tube stations, of empty streets where weeds break up the Tarmac and everyone retreats home to their laptops, and we look back on the conviviality of the era before mass terrorism with nostalgic disbelief.
What's at stake is a long history of the city, that exchange point for trade and ideas that has been the crux of all civilisations. The city orders how large numbers of human beings live in close proximity. In so doing, it civilises and turns strangers into citizens who belong to a civil society in which they treat each other with (more or less) civility. All these words have the same Latin root, civitas .
What the demonstrations in Spain remind us is that civility - the measure of goodwill from one stranger to another - is ultimately what makes a city's spirit. It is the accumulation of tiny, daily interactions with bus conductors, fellow commuters, newspaper sellers and coffee-shop waitresses - the humour, the greetings, the gestures of help that smooth the rough edges of urban living.
As mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani articulated this civility brilliantly after 9/11, but it is often where politicians are lamentably lacking with their instinct to reassure by displaying resolve and the will to control. The role thrust on the head of government is to pursue justice, and all too often that tips into a wrathful vengeance. That was how George Bush interpreted the mood of his people after 9/11, and the first signs are that José Maria Aznar, the Spanish prime minister, is using a similar idiom. It seems space is rarely allowed in the political process for the kinds of responses of ordinary people such as the Spanish woman who said she felt no hate, only sadness; or another who felt she had nothing to say, she had to think over what had happened. The task of reflection and reconciliation once fell to religious leaders, but the decline of faith leaves a vacuum rarely filled by politicians.
Instead, in the past two days the vacuum has been filled by the people; the politicians would do well to listen, and articulate their civility rather than rush to use the shabby and meaningless metaphor of a "war on terror". You cannot fight fire with fire, was the implicit message of the silent crowds. Spain's mourning will have global resonance - as did 9/11. Over half the world's population now live in cities, and the images we have seen in the past few days offer two alternatives of what the city might mean in the 21st century: a place of terror where the stranger is to be feared and distrusted, or the determined solidarity of strangers - a sea of hands waving hastily scribbled messages with the one word that says everything: "No". Thank you, Spain, for giving us a choice.
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Johann Moritz
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Madrid
Aug 2003
time: 06:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay Bee
BTW, los idiotas de El pais han vuelto a cerrar su diario. Panda gilipollas, ahora me obligan a volver al inmundo y al abc  |
Eh, cuidado, que algunos tenemos padres que trabajan allí... 
Por cierto, respecto a desinformación de medios... lo que sé es que, mientras que El País se limita a exponer los hechos, el ABC, por ejemplo, no sólo no habla de lo del CNI, sino que pone en portada en su edición digital una noticia tan "importante" como que había 8 miembros de la comunidad islámica entre los fallecidos... y hasta hace nada seguían con Acebes hablando de ETA...
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jm_ruiz
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Esperando al Civ4- CivELO: 2532(15º)
Jun 2003
time: 06:34
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Extracto de un teletipo de Reuters
quote:
SPAIN-EXPLOSIONS (UPDATE 3, PICTURE, GRAPHIC) UPDATE 3-Spain's spies blame Muslims for bombs - radio
(Recasts, updates throughout, previous ALCALA DE HENARES)
By Daniel Trotta
MADRID, Spain, March 13 (Reuters) - Spain's intelligence service is "99 percent certain" Muslim not Basque militants perpetrated the Madrid train bombings that killed 200 people, a Spanish radio station reported on Saturday.
The report by private radio SER, whose owners have links to the opposition Socialists, flew in the face of government assertions armed group ETA was the prime suspect in the attacks that have traumatised Spain and sent jitters round the world.
It fuelled grumbling from critics that Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's government might be focusing on the Basque group, rather than al Qaeda, for internal political gain ahead of Sunday's election. Ministers angrily denied the charge.
"If (they think) it is al Qaeda, nobody has told me," Interior Minister Angel Acebes said, when asked if intelligence services were tending towards blaming Islamic militants for the blasts.
Finding the culprits for Thursday's atrocity, which killed 200 people and wounded 1,500, has huge global security implications. If it was al Qaeda, it would be the first strike in the West since the September 11, 2001, attacks on America.
If it were ETA, it would be a major escalation for a group that has killed 850 people in Spain over 36 years and is listed as a terrorist group by the United States and European Union.
It could also sway Spain's general election, going ahead on Sunday as planned after three days of official mourning.
Aznar's centre-right government stands to win votes if the culprits were ETA, because it has campaigned on its hardline stance against the armed Basque group, political analysts said.
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WRW
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Madrid
Aug 2002
time: 06:34
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Y digo yo...
Extracto de un teletipo de Reuters
quote:
SPAIN-EXPLOSIONS (UPDATE 3, PICTURE, GRAPHIC) UPDATE 3-Spain's spies blame Muslims for bombs - radio
(Recasts, updates throughout, previous ALCALA DE HENARES)
By Daniel Trotta
MADRID, Spain, March 13 (Reuters) - Spain's intelligence service is "99 percent certain" Muslim not Basque militants perpetrated the Madrid train bombings that killed 200 people, a Spanish radio station reported on Saturday.
The report by private radio SER, whose owners have links to the opposition Socialists, flew in the face of government assertions armed group ETA was the prime suspect in the attacks that have traumatised Spain and sent jitters round the world.
It fuelled grumbling from critics that Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar's government might be focusing on the Basque group, rather than al Qaeda, for internal political gain ahead of Sunday's election. Ministers angrily denied the charge.
"If (they think) it is al Qaeda, nobody has told me," Interior Minister Angel Acebes said, when asked if intelligence services were tending towards blaming Islamic militants for the blasts.
Finding the culprits for Thursday's atrocity, which killed 200 people and wounded 1,500, has huge global security implications. If it was al Qaeda, it would be the first strike in the West since the September 11, 2001, attacks on America.
If it were ETA, it would be a major escalation for a group that has killed 850 people in Spain over 36 years and is listed as a terrorist group by the United States and European Union.
It could also sway Spain's general election, going ahead on Sunday as planned after three days of official mourning.
Aznar's centre-right government stands to win votes if the culprits were ETA, because it has campaigned on its hardline stance against the armed Basque group, political analysts said.
*************************
Eso sí que da asco...
A ver si en TVE mencionan algo de esa concentración sin decir que son jovenes desalmados anticonstitucionales...
Estoy a un paso de ir para allá... 
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tammander
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Outermost
Feb 2004
time: 06:34
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5 detenidos: 2 hindues (from India) y 3 arabes (SER)
EDIT --
5 detenidos: 2 hindues (españoles) y 3 arabes (SER)
Last edited by tammander on 14-03-2004 at 00:25
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Kramsib
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Father and protector of PROGRESSIVE GAMES, SANTANDER, Cantabria, España (Spain), Unión Europea (European Union)
Sep 2001
time: 06:34
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Bueno, es que tampoco hay que ser tan quisquillosos.
Bien, Acebes se ha tenido que comer esa porfía de decir que no tenían dudas de que fuera ETA. Yo también tengo que reconocer que me equivocaba, pero aún hoy tampoco podemos estar seguros 100%, si la investigación ha dado un giro puede dar más .
Ahora bien, el jueves casi todos pensábamos que era ETA y el gobierno no era menos. Luego con la simpatía que le tenemos todos al Otegui ese pues es lógico que tampoco le tuviéramos en consideración.
Reconozco que también puede ser cierto, y digo "puede" por ser prudente, que el gobierno haya aprovechado que todos pensábamos que era ETA para beneficiarse electoralmente, y aún más, politizar las manifestaciones de ayer bajo una pancarta donde a mi parecer sobraba texto (recuerdo que se quejaban de que la pancarta de Ezquerra era muy larga y poco concreta).
Pero lo que quiero decir es que no ahora no se puede decir que el gobierno vaya a retener información que apunte en la dirección del terrorismo islámico hasta el final de las elecciones, con lo cual los capítulos de "La Teoría de la Conspiración" que se han expresado en este thread quedan fuera de lugar.
Pienso, y quiero pensar bien, que si se ha retrasado la facilitación de alguna información ha sido por prudencia en la investigación, lo importante es coger a esos individuos.
En cuanto a las manifestaciones frente a la Calle Génova, espero que se hayan desarrollado con tranquilidad, no vaya a ser que empiecen acusando de que se les corta "su" libertad de expresión, porque ellos también saben de cortar la de los demás.
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13-03-2004 21:48
: por no llorar:
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