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Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

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Mar 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 09:42
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Woman charged with murder for refusing C-section Got spare money?

quote:
Woman charged after refusing Caesarean
Autopsy showed 2nd twin would have survived with procedure
The Associated Press
Updated: 10:42 p.m. ET March 11, 2004
SALT LAKE CITY - A pregnant woman who allegedly ignored medical warnings to have a Caesarean section to save her twins was charged Thursday with murder after one of the babies was stillborn.

Prosecutors said Melissa Ann Rowland, 28, didn’t want the scars that accompany the surgery.

An autopsy found the baby died two days before its Jan. 13 delivery and that it would have survived if Rowland had had a C-section when her doctors urged her to, between Christmas and Jan.9. The other baby is alive, but authorities had no further information.

The doctors had warned that without a C-section, the twins would probably die, authorities said. A nurse told police Rowland said a Caesarean would “ruin her life” and she would rather “lose one of the babies than be cut like that.”

“We are unable to find any reason other than the cosmetic motivations” for the mother’s decision, said Kent Morgan, spokesman for the district attorney.

Court documents give no address for Rowland, and she isn’t listed in area telephone books. An attorney was to be appointed for her Friday, Morgan said. A court appearance was set for Tuesday.

The charges carry five years to life in prison. Rowland was jailed on $250,000 bail.

In January, the state Supreme Court ruled that unborn children at all stages of development are covered under the state’s criminal homicide statute. The law exempts the death of a fetus during an abortion.

The law has been used to prosecute women who kill or seriously harm their babies through drug use; it has never been used because a woman failed to follow her doctor’s advice, said Marguerite Driessen, a law professor at Brigham Young University.

“It’s very troubling to have somebody come in and say we’re going to charge this mother for murder because we don’t like the choices she made,” Driessen said.

According to the documents, Rowland went to LDS Hospital in Salt Lake City in December to seek advice after she hadn’t felt her babies move. A nurse, Regina Davis, told police she instructed Rowland to go immediately to one of two other hospitals, but that Rowland said she would rather have both babies die before going to either place.

On Jan. 2, a doctor at LDS Hospital examined Rowland and recommended an immediate C-section based on an ultrasound and the babies’ slowing heart rates. Rowland left, the doctor told police.

The same day, Rowland allegedly saw a nurse at another hospital, saying she had left LDS Hospital because the doctor wanted to cut her “from breast bone to pubic bone.”

A week later, Rowland allegedly went to a third hospital to verify whether her babies were alive. A nurse there told police she could not detect a heartbeat from one twin and advised Rowland to remain in the hospital, but Rowland allegedly ignored the advice.

A spokesman for LDS Hospital said he could not comment, citing medical privacy and a pending court case. It was not clear how many weeks Rowland was pregnant before the delivery.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4509692/


Okay folks, what do you think?

While the woman is obviously an idiot, I find it troubling that she is being charged with murder for refusing a surgical procedure... it is my (admittedly novice) legal understanding that adults can refuse medical treatment if they so desire...

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
time: 13:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 09:44
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It's Utah, Guy. They do strange things there

Theben is offline Theben
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 09:46
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I can't see charging her with murder, admittedly solely on the basis that it doesn't seem right.

There's a cans of worms.

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
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Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 09:48
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The woman should probably have done it, but... MURDER? that is plain idiotic.

BTW, wouldn't the surgery cost her money if she's not insured (or only partly?)

joncha is offline joncha
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Jan 2003
time: 21:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 09:48
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I'm not sure I'd call her an idiot. C-sections are notoriously over-prescribed.

The quickest link I could find to the debate in the Canadian context:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...d=1078182610939

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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May 1999
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 09:55
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The worst thing I could see is criminal negligence, but that's pushing it.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:02 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Charging someone with murder for refusing to go under the knife? What, are we gonna start forcing people to give up kidneys and force everyone to be an organ donar now? This is a massive invasion of privacy and will hopefully be struck down as unconstitutional.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
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Aug 2005
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:26 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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Why do I have to live in such a stupid state?
But this probably will be a bigger issue in Utah. The Church wants people to procreate, and so.....

Sigh. Please, no jokes.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:28 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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At least your state isn't as corrupt as mine. I live in a friggan banana republic. My state makes Nigerians blush.

The Templar is offline The Templar
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Why do I have to live in such a stupid state?
But this probably will be a bigger issue in Utah. The Church wants people to procreate, and so.....

Sigh. Please, no jokes.


How's about an "I told you so"?

monkspider is offline monkspider
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Aug 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:30
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This woman denied one of her babies the chance to accept Jesus Christ as it's personal savior and as a result,her innocent child is now being tortured in the lowest bowels of hell by a legion of demons.

I say string her up!!

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:30
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Child endangerment would have been the better charge to make.

The Templar is offline The Templar
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Child endangerment would have been the better charge to make.


And here comes our first proponent of forced surgery ...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:35
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It's more logical than making the charge of murder.

The Templar is offline The Templar
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Oct 2001
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:40
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
It's more logical than making the charge of murder.


Best solution - drop the charges and tell the Mormons to line up for some Kool-Aid. Yeah, that's the ticket!

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 10:42
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My solution would be to drop the charges, call the woman a *****, and look into taking the kid born alive away from her.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 12:11 Visit Dis's homepage!
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murder seems excessive. But from what I understand (I got my news from the Tom Leykis show- he's a shock jock type of radio personality), her attitude was pretty shitty. The reason she refused the c-section was kinda weak.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 12:13 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Why do I have to live in such a stupid state?
But this probably will be a bigger issue in Utah. The Church wants people to procreate, and so.....

Sigh. Please, no jokes.


bah! At least you get to have numerous wives who do whatever you say. Your state rules!!

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 12:16
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quote:

didn’t want the scars that accompany the surgery.


Eh.

How do I do the puke smiley?

Az is offline Az
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Apr 2000
time: 07:34
  Old Post 12-03-2004 12:17
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murder? No. Criminal endangerment of a child, or some sort of manslaughter, is more appropriate.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 12:18
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Well, better than nothing.

Attachment: puke.gif
This has been downloaded 181 time(s).

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 13:02 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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Most likely involuntary manslaughter would be a more appropriate charge.

Dis is offline Dis
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 13:03 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Got spare money?

how could it be involuntary? she voluntarily did it

That is still too harsh a charge.

negligance at the worst.

Giancarlo is offline Giancarlo
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 13:06 Visit Giancarlo's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
how could it be involuntary? she voluntarily did it

That is still too harsh a charge.

negligance at the worst.


Oops.. that was a typo. Manslaughter can carry a sentence of as little as a few years to life I think.

Aeson is offline Aeson
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 13:35
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What kind of person would rather see their baby die than to have a scar? Definitely not someone who should be having children. As sad as it is to see an infant die, I think I feel more sorry for the child who was born.

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"As little" a sentence as life imprisonment? Wow, coming from you that's practically an acquital, Fez.

Daz is offline Daz
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 13:37
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I guess the Utah lawyer community is getting bored. Sheesh.

Ming is offline Ming
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 19:22 Visit Ming<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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While I personally think the lady should be punished... the story says...
quote:

The doctors had warned that without a C-section, the twins would probably die, authorities said. A nurse told police Rowland said a Caesarean would “ruin her life” and she would rather “lose one of the babies than be cut like that.”

“We are unable to find any reason other than the cosmetic motivations” for the mother’s decision, said Kent Morgan, spokesman for the district attorney.


In the first paragraph... the doctor warned that the twins "probably" would die. Medicine isn't an exact science. The twins could have survived, and one did indeed survive.
There is also always a risk with surgery... So we are talking about percentages here. Granted, one could argue that the percentages say that she should have had the surgery... but it seems by the second paragraph that she is being charged because of comments made to a nurse.

Do I disagree with her choice... YES... But should people be forced to have surgery they don't want... NO!

If she had stated that she was afraid of having the surgery, and didn't want to take that risk... this probably wouldn't even be an issue.

GePap is offline GePap
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Nov 2001
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 19:40
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Murder is one charge too far.

Az is offline Az
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Apr 2000
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  Old Post 12-03-2004 19:46
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what would be an appropriate charge, GePap?

 
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