16-03-2004 04:22									#391
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quote: Spain has surrendered to terrorism.

this truly is the era of teh stupid

	16-03-2004 04:22									#392
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Don't you know that Spaniards are genetic cowards Spiff?

At least, maybe I won't suffer from the coward jokes anymore

	16-03-2004 04:24									#393
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I see. Prior to the vote, the left says Spain was attacked becuase it helped Bush on Iraq. After, the election, they deny this. Somehow the attack had nothing to do with Iraq. Further, the election results shifting from the PP to the socialists had nothing to do with the attack. All this hypocrisy in a mere 48 hours.

Have you noticed that suddenly they have forgot all interest in knowing the "truth" about the attack? Now they donīt care about the police investigations or anything.

	16-03-2004 04:25									#394
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA No doubt it is. Spain has surrendered to terrorism. Just like when people offer to pay the Mafia for protection. They will forget us during some time. Probably the next objective is USA. Now that they know that they have the power to change governments they will try to prevent Mr. Bushīs reelection. Terrorists have achieved everything they wanted. - They kill people they hate. - They terorize the other people who are alive. - They change a government who would pursue them, effectively gaining more freedom of action. - And they demosntrate that terror works Spain people have what they deserve. Iīm just sorry for the 9,5 million of Spanish who donīt deserve it.

I will truly cry when there is another terrorist attack in Madrid or some other part of Spain because this government proves its gross incompetence when in the face of terrorism.

I will now wave a US flag next to my name. I am too much in disgrace to fly the flag of my own country. The flag seen in my room has also been folded away.

http://www.glomar.net/room.jpg

	16-03-2004 04:27									#395
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA Terrorists have achieved everything they wanted. - They kill people they hate. - They terorize the other people who are alive. - They change a government who would pursue them, effectively gaining more freedom of action. - And they demosntrate that terror works

You seriously believe Zapatero will stop the antiterrorist police and secret services to operate? You seriously think there will be no extra effort done to find and arrest the culprits of this attack? You seriously believe there won't be steps taken to avoid further attacks to happen?

	16-03-2004 04:27									#396
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I am sorry, but it is lovely for the Spaniards who support the right, besides getting rid of things that would identify them as being from Spain, moan about how their country has been sold out by their own people! Damn those stupid voters! Things were better under the Franco dictatorship, no doubt!

Give it a rest.

Aznar could not keep Spain safe- why should the voters give his party a go?

	16-03-2004 04:28									#397
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quote: I will truly cry when there is another terrorist attack in Madrid or some other part of Spain because this government proves its gross incompetence when in the face of terrorism.

you mean incompetence like the previous Spanish government? or incompetence like the Bush administration which ignored the terrorist threat before 9-11?

	16-03-2004 04:28									#398
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quote: Aznar could not keep Spain safe- why should the voters give his party a go?

	16-03-2004 04:28									#399
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You seriously believe Zapatero will stop the antiterrorist police and secret services to operate? You seriously think there will be no extra effort done to find and arrest the culprits of this attack? You seriously believe there won't be steps taken to avoid further attacks to happen?

Sadly, he must think that, no?

But then of course, the opposition won, and they must be evil and not care about spain-otherwise, they would not be the opposition?

	16-03-2004 04:29									#400
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA Have you noticed that suddenly they have forgot all interest in knowing the "truth" about the attack? Now they donīt care about the police investigations or anything.

I don't belong to "they" then. If anything, I'll be damn glad if ETA's guilt is proven, as it would mean Al Qaeda's isn't that developed in Spain for now.

	16-03-2004 04:29									#401
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quote: Originally posted by Sava

Aznar could not keep the country safe? What the **** is that? He kept the country more safe than the PSOE ever did. This attack couldn't of been stopped as it was logistically impossible. You could NOT have police in every place at every time. If the PSOE was in power rather than the PP, the attack would of still happened.

	16-03-2004 04:31									#402
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quote: Aznar could not keep the country safe? What the **** is that?

maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events

	16-03-2004 04:32									#403
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quote: Originally posted by Sava maybe you haven't been keeping up on current events

Get your head out of your arse. Aznar tried his best and the PSOE couldn't of done any better. To say he is responsible, is to show your true arrogance.

	16-03-2004 04:32									#404
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If the attack had resulted in a huge swing towards the PP, would people still be crying over spain giving into terrorism and leting it effect their vote?

	16-03-2004 04:33									#405
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quote: Aznar tried his best

which obviously wasn't enough... good riddance!

	16-03-2004 04:33									#406
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Aznar could not keep the country safe? What the **** is that? He kept the country more safe than the PSOE ever did. This attack couldn't of been stopped as it was logistically impossible. You could have police in every place at every time. If the PSOE was in power rather than the PP, the attack would of still happened.

He did? Hmm, so many terrorist attacks that killed 200 people at one go happen in the 8 years prior to Aznar?

You say the attack could not be stopped? Then it does not matter which party won..see fez, you claims are inconsistent- becuase if there was ntohing that could be done to stop the attack, obviously Iraq was not the solution, and the voters , the vast supermayority of which were uneasy and unhappy with that whole mess, no longer had any reason, vis a vi security, to vote for the PP- after all, they could not keep Spain safe from AQ-LIKE YOU SAID.

	16-03-2004 04:34									#407
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd If the attack had resulted in a huge swing towards the PP, would people still be crying over spain giving into terrorism and leting it effect their vote?

It didn't happen that way. I don't know what I would be feeling.

The PP means = Stronger approach towards terrorism
The PSOE means = Weaker approach towards terrorism

	16-03-2004 04:35									#408
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Aznar could not keep the country safe? What the **** is that? He kept the country more safe than the PSOE ever did. This attack couldn't of been stopped as it was logistically impossible. You could NOT have police in every place at every time. If the PSOE was in power rather than the PP, the attack would of still happened.

Wow, finally a sensible post

Yes, terrorism is a threat extremely difficult to avert, and yes it is pretty stupid to say this attack was Aznar's fault, or the next attack will be Zapatero's fault (as I expect you and OliverFa to say when it'll happen).

This attack was the terrorists' fault. They are the culprits, they must be punished, and they must be rooted out. I think the main difference between Aznar and Zapatero in this regard is that I expect Zapatero to focus more on the prevention part, while Aznar would have focused more on the "boink some heads" part.

	16-03-2004 04:36									#409
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quote: Originally posted by GePap You say the attack could not be stopped? Then it does not matter which party won..see fez, you claims are inconsistent-

Incorrect. I am sticking to one claim. No matter who won, the attack couldn't of been prevented.

quote: obviously Iraq was not the solution,

Invading Iraq was a liberation issue and only an nescient arrogant peacenik would be against liberation

quote: and the voters , the vast supermayority of which were uneasy and unhappy with that whole mess, no longer had any reason, vis a vi security, to vote for the PP- after all, they could not keep Spain safe from AQ-LIKE YOU SAID.

Supermajority? Laughable. 9 million still voted for the PP and they are going to be the unhappy ones.

I didn't say anything like that. I said the PP took the fight to Al Qaeda. The PSOE is just going to box in the country which won't work.

	16-03-2004 04:36									#410
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ugh... I don't like what the Spanish (new) PM is saying. Fact is, you can be against the war, but pulling out now will mostly likely hurt the IRAQIs more than the US! The US will look at everyone leaving, say screw this (at least some candidate will) and we'll pull out way before time, say we got Saddam, so we won and that's that. I wish both sides would put politics aside and not screw over a whole country because dick-waivers on both sides of the Atlantic would rather seem 'right' than actually help out.

The PM is just reflecting the opinion of the Spanish people. Do you think that we the Spanish care about Irak? Do you think that we care about anything else that ourselves? The only thing that we want is that terrorists leave us in peace and go kill someone else. As long as we can keep life we donīt mind if we have to become arab fundamentalists or to betray our friends. We are the only important thing. The only reason we have voted him is because with him there will be no more bombs. Well... at least until USA are fully destroyed. But probably they will manage to destroy terrorists, so letīs let them put the dead people, not we.

(I say "we" because Iīm accepting the elections results )

	16-03-2004 04:36									#411
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo It didn't happen that way. I don't know what I would be feeling. The PP means = Stronger approach towards terrorism The PSOE means = Weaker approach towards terrorism

Oh, yes, of course-cause involvement in Iarq did so much to keep Spain from those Iraqi WMD's, and degraded AQ;s ability to attack Spain..... wait, no, none of that is true...

Aznar and his government can claim that he did a good job in curbing ETA- hopefully the new gov. will keep the anti-terrorism policies against ETA while ebing more open to the demands of mainstream Basque parties.

	16-03-2004 04:38									#412
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quote: Originally posted by GePap hopefully the new gov. will keep the anti-terrorism policies against ETA while ebing more open to the demands of mainstream Basque parties.

Somehow I doubt that.

"is that I expect Zapatero to focus more on the prevention part, while Aznar would have focused more on the "boink some heads" part."

No. Aznar was the one who took a harder line on domestic terrorism in the country. Zapatero's positions were not even clearly defined before the election date.

	16-03-2004 04:39									#413
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd If the attack had resulted in a huge swing towards the PP, would people still be crying over spain giving into terrorism and leting it effect their vote?

No. Because it's well known that the American Democrats, the Spanish Socialists and the British Tories, err, I mean, Labour Party, are a front for international Islamo-Commie-Fascist terrorism.

Only the American Republicans and the Spanish Conservatives and the British Socialists, err, sorry, Conservatives, represent the pure unalloyed democratic will of the people. Thus it has been, is, and ever shall be, despite people like Reagan making deals with Iran and bankrolling terrorists.

Only liberals or commie symps do things like that.

	16-03-2004 04:39									#414
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I don't belong to "they" then. If anything, I'll be damn glad if ETA's guilt is proven, as it would mean Al Qaeda's isn't that developed in Spain for now.

With the open boarders in Europe and the vast variety in nationality, coupled with US military presence in Afghanistan and Iraq, then Europe is the natural place for AQ to grow. Sadly, I predict that this is the first of a series of terror acts that Europe will suffer. I certainly hope I am wrong.

While the guilt of ETA may be a good thing on the world stage, it would certainly be a devastating escalation for the Spanish people. AQ probably hit their best shot and will be done in Spain for some time...ETA could just be getting started. For the Spanish people's sake I hope it was AQ.

	16-03-2004 04:40									#415
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Incorrect. I am sticking to one claim. No matter who won, the attack couldn't of been prevented.

So you agree PP could not keep spain safe from AQ.

quote: Invading Iraq was a liberation issue and only an nescient arrogant peacenik would be against liberation

You mean like 80% of Spaniards who didn't-man, you should have gotten rid of your flag long ago.

quote: Supermajority? Laughable. 9 million still voted for the PP and they are going to be the unhappy ones.

80% opposed the Iraq war, so most of the voters for the PP stiull opposed the war anyway-that is the supermayority I spoke of-maybe one day your reading comprehension will improve.

quote: I didn't say anything like that. I said the PP took the fight to Al Qaeda. The PSOE is just going to box in the country which won't work.

Given that the fight vs AQ is happening in Europe and Afghanistan, I fail to see how pulling 1300 men form Iraq hurts Spain's war on AQ.

	16-03-2004 04:42									#416
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You seriously believe Zapatero will stop the antiterrorist police and secret services to operate? You seriously think there will be no extra effort done to find and arrest the culprits of this attack? You seriously believe there won't be steps taken to avoid further attacks to happen?

Well... for starting he is going to retire Spanish troops from Irak.

Later, he will continue aligning with France and Germany to criticize Mr. Bush for everything he does.

I hope Blair can make he change her mind, but I doubt.

He will stop fighting the root of terrorism, so terrorism is in better condition now. And coward Spanish will suffer the loss of liberty of increased security measures that sooner or later will fail again. Itīs impossible to protect everything. Supermarkets, football stadiums, buses, cinemas, schools...

Well... At least I will see it from UK, but this doesnīt mean that I wonīt feel sorry for those cowards.

	16-03-2004 04:42									#417
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quote: Originally posted by GePap So you agree PP could not keep spain safe from AQ.

No.

quote: You mean like 80% of Spaniards who didn't-man, you should have gotten rid of your flag long ago.

I'm thinking about burning it.

quote: 80% opposed the Iraq war, so most of the voters for the PP stiull opposed the war anyway-that is the supermayority I spoke of-maybe one day your reading comprehension will improve.

You have the reading comprehension of a five year old.

quote: Given that the fight vs AQ is happening in Europe and Afghanistan, I fail to see how pulling 1300 men form Iraq hurts Spain's war on AQ.

Liberation issues again. If all the coalition partners pull out, Al Qaeda will see an opportunity to exploit the situation and we will have tons of terrorists everywhere.

	16-03-2004 04:43									#418
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It's really sad when people so blinded by political ideology can't admit they are wrong. AZNAR COULD NOT KEEP SPAIN SAFE... that's why his government is gone.

	16-03-2004 04:43									#419
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA The PM is just reflecting the opinion of the Spanish people. Do you think that we the Spanish care about Irak? Do you think that we care about anything else that ourselves? The only thing that we want is that terrorists leave us in peace and go kill someone else. As long as we can keep life we donīt mind if we have to become arab fundamentalists or to betray our friends. We are the only important thing. The only reason we have voted him is because with him there will be no more bombs. Well... at least until USA are fully destroyed. But probably they will manage to destroy terrorists, so letīs let them put the dead people, not we. (I say "we" because Iīm accepting the elections results )

Do you think the American people, or the British people care about Iraq? Do you think the populace of any state outside of Iraq gives three licks about Iraq? Every electorate that backed the war (oh so few) did it for purely selfish reasons (we are afraid!). Now we have one people for new selfish reasons saying , nah, lets leave. I think many Iraqis might appriciate the Spaniards for leaving...so hey, you guys are thinking about Iraq!

	16-03-2004 04:44									#420
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo It didn't happen that way.

It's what your predicted and, apparently, wanted. You where basically routing for a change in the political atmosphere as soon as the attack happened.