18-03-2004 01:00									#1
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As anybody who has seen me post in the last couple of years knows, I've announced a number of scenario projects that died for various reasons. I am currently in the state that I'm vacant of a scenario idea to keep me hooked, so I'm hoping for suggestions by others as of what to do next. This has proved to be quite helpful in the past -at least two of my scenarios arouse from such polls. I've got a few ideas, but I'm not going to walk around spilling news about something that I'll never finish again. So, if anybody has some ideas, please post them. There are just a few criteria:

1. No WWII!!!!!!! I think there are enough scenario makers out there who are more competent on this subject than I am. Likewise, I won't make anything about a 20th century war. It simply isn't my period of interest and knowledge (the only thing I might get myself pulled into would be a colonial struggle).

2. No solely war-based game. I don't mind if there's warfaring in it, but it shouldn't be something that would be described as a wargame. Maybe an invasion with a limited amount of troops, something like an adventure scenario, would be interesting, but that's pushing it. It should be something which involves cultural development, the rise and/or fall of civilizations.

3. If it is avoidable, nothing involving the Middle East or Persia. I think I've done enough on that subject. If there is a big public demand for it, I might reconsider, however.

4. Nothing about German history. It's not interesting to me, and I don't want to make anything about it. Full stop.

5. Pre-gunpowder age would be preferred, but not necessary.

I hope to see some fruitful input here. Thanks in advance.

	18-03-2004 01:09									#2
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Well, the rise and possible fall of the Inca empire perhaps?

Does it have to be historical? Can it be fantasy?

	18-03-2004 01:24									#3
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Doesn't have to be historical, but I'm not that much of a fantasy freak. Inca empire sounds interesting, I wonder what interesting and original ideas that may hold.

BTW, I won't be able to start serious work on this in the next two months because my final exams are coming up.

	18-03-2004 01:29									#4
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How about a scenario about the age of exploration? Itc ould go from 1450 - ????, and the main players would be Spain, France, England, and China.

	18-03-2004 02:01									#5
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Fall of the roman empire? I love Mark Laanen's scenario, but I'm sure you could create a great one.

	18-03-2004 02:43									#6
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what happen to the project about wwI in africa??
it looked interesting

	18-03-2004 03:20									#7
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I have no idea what's out there, but I'm guessing there are already plenty of scenarios on the Peleponnesian War? If not, as I remember my history, it lasted long enough to allow some social development.

	18-03-2004 03:23									#8
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Good idea Elok. I know Alex Moor made a scenario about it but I didn't like the map, it was too small.

	18-03-2004 03:56									#9
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Search for the source of the White Nile.

	18-03-2004 05:38									#10
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Hi Stefan
I am thinking of starting my 3rd civ2 scen, about the war between the empire and bulgaria, during the reign of Basil II (the so called slayer of bulgars). Are you interested in any sort of collaboration? (anything to keep me from doing everything on my own!) At leasst i already have most of the byzantine units from my scen about Thessalonike

	18-03-2004 15:38									#11
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Stefan:
I support Jasev's and ShakaNaldur's proposal: fall of Roman Empire (especially with all those new roman units by Fairline and others guys - so yoiu can concentrate yourself only on the scenario ...)
Varwnos's proposal is good,too: BasiliosII (Bulgaroktonos... poor Bulgars ) was one the best and more war-busy biz emperors.
A personal proposal by me: the dawn of ETRUSCANS.
I remember I downloaded an Etrusker scenario (with BebBro graphics) from a German civ2 site, but... It was in Deutsch language...
It didn't sound bad, but you could make another one, more empire-building...
Civs: Etruscans(obv!), Greeks, Phoenicians, Celts, Italics, Latins, others. Age: VIII-V century bC.


Elok/Arthedain:
Agree with you about AlexMor's Peloponnesian war (not only for the map, but it was VERY far from historical war. Ehy, be clear: AlexMor remain a MAGNIFICENT scen creator!!!).
So it's a long time I was thinking for another one (I like Greek history very,very much). But I have VERY slow work rhythms...
So if Stefan is quicker, welcome and do a good job!
Btw, my Peloponnesos project was a only-WAR scen...

Bye All!

	18-03-2004 15:57									#12
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It is difficult not to focus mostly on war in any scen, certainly hard work to make war a subplot and not the main activity in the game, and i havent managed to do that. However theoretically there are some basic ways to do this, for example you can limit units to defencively strong ones, and have offensive ones appear through events or research etc, but still the level of micromanagement perhaps isnt that great so that one can feel confident in focusing in non-war aspects, since that is mostly an illusion i think. Basil II would easily be about war though anyway heh

	18-03-2004 16:44									#13
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Once You promessed me a collaboration on Heraclius

But OK. No Persia. Don't care for other comments. Wait for mine, until I make up my mind what You should be doing, and follow my orders.

I do not have all that many propositions right now;
First punic war (no scns up to today, and You might be interested in the subject, as You did a Third Punic War scn)

Damn. Rest of my ideas is located in Middle East.

	18-03-2004 18:35									#14
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How about a scen set on a totally different planet - no humans, but perhaps a set of biologically different alien races?

All with their own units and improvements?

	18-03-2004 21:04									#15
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Well, I believe its always best if one creates a scenario about something historical that hasn't been focused on in a scenario before. Thus the various epochs of roman empire would imo not be a interesting choice.

I was personally in the same position a few days ago. Now however I found something of an idea. Its about the british conquest of india. Thus between Stefans Mughal scenario and Michael Daumens Great Game.
The key idea will be empire building + exploration. Somewhat inspired by Stefans Artaxerxes. Also the british troops will be superior but very costly and thus enabling the various indian nations (most importantly Mysore and Marathas) to swarm the brits with troops and thus reflecting the real strenght and weaknessess of the two sides.

I've many ideas but one of the key issues still havent been decided. Will I allow diplomacy or not? This was historically a place full of diplomacy and alliances and it could enable the player to seek multiple paths. I am also thinking of multiple events and thus enabling some diplomacy in some periods but not in others.

Anyway, back to subject . Stefan find something original that you really is interested in. Some ideas:

Manchu conquest of China
Possibillity here to make a truly exotic scenario if one put down a lot of effort in unit graphics (or let someone else do it).

Coowork with me on my scenario. If not I'd still like a few ideas on how to make set the atmosphere really indian.

The Japanese empires road from feudal nation to industrialized nation

The scottish quest for freedom during 15-18th centuries

Or perhaps about the rise of some more unknown empire. Like in the area of Burma-Thailand.

	18-03-2004 21:31									#16
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Wow, 2 1/2 asks for cowork (I'm counting Heresson's comment as sort of coping with the fact that I'm not helping him* )


*BTW, Maciej, have you gotten my new contact info (it's in a thread a couple of pages back)? In case not, and in case anybody else is interested, it's intaphernesATyahooDOTcom


Now, onwards...

quote: what happen to the project about wwI in africa?? it looked interesting

It died with my hard drive crash in September.

varwnos: A cooperation on this scenario sounds interesting, but I must admit that I know absolutely nothing about Bulgarian history, and all that I could find out with my current sources are a few hard facts. Also, cooperation with others (examples: Mike Daumen, Mathias Köster) died after a while. I'm always ready to help, also intensively, but I can't take over such a dominant spot, sorry

quote: Search for the source of the White Nile.

That sounds like a fascinating idea for an adventure scenario, but I hardly know anything about it.

quote: First punic war

Another very interesting idea. I made an embryonic one many years ago (about the same time I started "Artaxerxes"), but it's gone as well. I'm not rejective about this one, as I do have a couple of good ideas for it. I'm not sure, though.

quote: A personal proposal by me: the dawn of ETRUSCANS.

That is a very fascinating thing too. What I can think of there would be either an empire-building type from Etruscan perspective, or a "Conquest Of Mexico"-style scenario (the one by Jesús Balsinde) for the Romans.

quote: I have no idea what's out there, but I'm guessing there are already plenty of scenarios on the Peleponnesian War?

An interesting one as well. It might even push me into reading Thukydides
It would certainly be a challenge to create, because of the complexity of the subject.

quote: Fall of the roman empire? I love Mark Laanen's scenario, but I'm sure you could create a great one.

A fall of Rome scenario... that was something which kept crawling into my mind... I'm not too sure, but I do have some very good ideas about it. This one is the most popular vote so far...

quote: Manchu conquest of China Possibillity here to make a truly exotic scenario if one put down a lot of effort in unit graphics (or let someone else do it).

I would do the graphics, that's no problem. The big problem is, that I know very little about China, less the Manchu conquest. The only bits about Chinese history that I've read revolve about the Mongols and Koxinga.

quote: Coowork with me on my scenario. If not I'd still like a few ideas on how to make set the atmosphere really indian.

I'm sceptical on cowork (see above), but I'd be delighted to help you there. Just send me a mail.

quote: The Japanese empires road from feudal nation to industrialized nation

Interesting too, but I'm also not very fresh on this subject. Maybe a Samurai-orientated scenario, but it would be very hard to beat "Sengoku Jidai".

quote: The scottish quest for freedom during 15-18th centuries

You're digging up my worst leaks of historical knowledge This would be a great scenario (I even have some idea outlines appearing in my head), but I'd have to do a lot of research on it as well.

quote: Like in the area of Burma-Thailand.

That's absolute terra incognita to me The exotic touch would be great, though (after all, that's what made me do "Lost Paradise").

quote: How about a scenario about the age of exploration? Itc ould go from 1450 - ????, and the main players would be Spain, France, England, and China.

Interesting, though many good scenarios exist which have exploited most of the good ideas already.

I'm gonna take some more suggestions if they come, and then I'll decide on a tendency.

	18-03-2004 21:52									#17
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Exotic scenarios ussually rule! It must be the fact that non-european history seems alien to us nomatter what, so imagination plays a bigger role there, although ofcourse everyone views a scen differently according to his own character. A good idea would be to first buy a good book about an era you are interested in making a scen about, have fun reading it, and then start making the scen i will probably do just that, although i am not very sure that i will start the Basileios II scen since its a bit too close to my empire of Thessalonike (not many people noticed i am sure that its title.gif was a painting of Basil II ). I think that i will try to make an adventure scenario, or a really primitive era one. There is a nice little story by Hermann Hesse about how the primitive people first left the forests, although its a bit bleak!
However i may decide to portray some era of ancient greek history instead, although most are already done for civ2. A good idea with colonization-based scenarios is one that (i think) Heresson had come up with, giving 0 movement settler units only via events, in specific locations in the map. The etruscan scen idea is very close to a greek colonization of Italy plot Ofcourse i will have to make my very own units

	18-03-2004 22:03									#18
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OMG hi maciej! I am back in civ2

Everything good over there?

	18-03-2004 22:10									#19
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quote: A good idea with colonization-based scenarios is one that (i think) Heresson had come up with, giving 0 movement settler units only via events, in specific locations in the map. The etruscan scen idea is very close to a greek colonization of Italy plot Ofcourse i will have to make my very own units

Wow this idea is truly excellent. Could be used for many sorts of scenarios.

	19-03-2004 00:39									#20
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How about a WW2 scenario set in the middle east,from the German perspective?

	19-03-2004 04:30									#22
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Okay, you're fascinated by history, but don't know much about periods that haven't already been covered to death. I'd suggest alternative history. Maybe history AND fantasy. Y'know that scenario that posits a world where science was replaced by magic very early on? The idea had terrific potential, but it was basically just a palette swap of the regular game. Maybe we could see what a history fan's brain does with the idea, instead. What happens when the Mongols get Werewolf Summoning?

Or fix MoMJr so it resembles MoM itself. I've often idly considered doing that, but concluded that I was too obsessed with making my own worlds to follow an established conceit faithfully.

	19-03-2004 06:29									#23
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How about a short and simple scenario. Maybe one set around an African ranch, fighting off fire ants, or something like the "Wealth of Nations"?

	19-03-2004 07:07									#24
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Near a good library? The White Nile by Alan Moorhead covers the quest for the source pretty well, and I'll bet Hardjoy knows a lot about it as well.

How about a remake of the Jules Verne scenario? Didn't someone do that already?

The race to the South Pole?

	19-03-2004 16:03									#25
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The original jules verne scenario wasnt very good :| the one that had the microprose industrial cities i mean

	19-03-2004 19:31									#26
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It wasn't screwed up half as badly as some of the other stuff on FW. MoMJr., Iceplanet, and Midgard come to mind...

	19-03-2004 20:18									#27
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I think we still need a good civ2 "alien invasion" scenario. ID4, War of the Worlds style. something like that

	19-03-2004 21:19									#28
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The fw scenarios in total sucked pretty much, waste of space :|

	19-03-2004 21:44									#29
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Some really excellent ideas for scenarios here! The history of the Incan empire sounds very interesting; how about expanding on that with a map of the whole of S. and C. America and a traditional civ explore and build scenario structure including the Aztecs, Mayans etc? Think Kull's Seeds of Greatness or End of the Bronze Age with a South American setting. Jaguar Warriors, pyramids, human sacrifice, city building - all topped off with a final 'alien invasion' in the form of the conquistadores.

	19-03-2004 22:08									#30
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quote: Originally posted by varwnos The fw scenarios in total sucked pretty much, waste of space :|

They didn't suck, they were just for the most part poorly implemented. Midgard, for example, had the idea of different unit sets for each civ, which had huge potential. They screwed up that potential by making the units for each civ very similar anyway, requiring similar advances so that each player got them in the exact same amount of time and having sufficiently similar stats and purposes that it didn't matter. Also, Ellida and Skidbladnir, available to all, made all those unique unit types basically worthless anyway, only halfway through the game. Little stuff like that is what ruined a lot of the FW scenarios.