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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, I happen to believe it 
I strongly dislike the extreme individualism in the US, where property is such a be-all end-all. It makes the US terrible when it comes to public service, things as basic as a decent public transportation for those who can't afford a car, decent public housing for the very many people who can't afford a house (this includes plenty of middle class people who have to be indebted for the rest of their lives), and a decent public education that is as good as private ed. |
Well, I never owned a car until last year (I'm 43 years old) and I have managed to survive by using public transportation and / or walking. My college debt was $2500 total, though I worked 30-40 hours a week throughout that time and went to a fairly inexpensive state university. I bought a house because it made good financial sense and improved my lifestyle. Now I have no debts and a net worth of about $500,000 despite making less than $50,000 a year. Good financial management is more important than salary.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:34
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It is brutal  . We don't care about our students, it's a fact. I mean, even prisoners get more money if they work. And they get to study too, so I'd say students are in a bad situation. I mean 60 euros AFTER rent though. But that's what you have to pay your bills (meaning you can't have bills), food, everything. And it's not like my situation is special, almost all I know is in the same situation. NO ONE wants debt from the people I know and everyone is angry about it too.
And then they're trying to take the current benefits away too. It suits the politicians who had better support themselves, lower prices, and support that was closer to up to date than it is now, lower rent costs.. it suits them to cut it all down now. 'We made it fine'.. well yeah you did because the situation is not the same anymore!
Plus every now and then I get those middle aged Punks saying to me 'you spend all that money to beer and booze'. Those people I just want to kill. I haven't had alcohol this year, last time I tasted alcohol was new years eve. So there.
Don't get a loan while you're in Uni. Just like everything else, the conditions change during the years. What is promised now doesn't hold when you're graduating necessarily. Do not get any debt. Just don't.
Work for your dad when you can, and don't pay taxes for it. Because then they will tax you even more and take your support away. They will rape you, so just make every penny you can and don't tell anyone about it.
You know even if you paid all the taxes doing a side job, you know you won't see a penny from it in your support. And you know they won't raise the support, even though they promised. Minister Karpela promised, but hey she's a ***** who says anything to get support and votes, once that's over with you're yesterdays news. Don't support the system. Graduate and get the hell out of here .
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Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
time: 00:34
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Hmmmm, sounds like articles I've read about Korean youth credit card debts, they're the worst in the world IIRC you have people jumping off bridges and whoring themselves out because they wracked up huge debts in college (part time jobs pay horrifically badly here) and then not being able to get a job in one of the big five conglomerates after graduation after running up a big debt in college (often while not even having a job and usuing one credit card to pay off another).
As for me I'm about $20,000 in the hole from my BA (would've saved money by going public, but Maine public schools sucked and I didn't want to get hit by out of state fee at another public school when I'd gotten into a First-Tier liberal arts school).
But right now my housing is free, my healthcare is under $3 per doctors visit (I'm officially my boss in an American mask or something when I go to the doctor, so I pay no insurance), I pay only 5% of my income in taxes and during the week I cook all my own food. So basically, I can blow through a whole lot of cash on the weekends, not get paid all that much and still save nearly half of what I make. Works out well, especially considering that my college debt is ridiculously subsidized.
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Sikander
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Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
 Good for you. I hope you sometimes get to explain the yung'uns how to do it. |
I have had two loans in my life, a $2500 student loan and a $110,000 mortgage. Other than that it has been cash or do without. I was poor as a kid, so didn't develop a lot of bad spending habits. The reason I never had a car is because I couldn't afford one at first, and later wasn't in the habit of spending so much money on something that I didn't need. Ditto cable television or anything more than a very basic phone service. I try to keep recurring costs to an absolute minimum. Do this for a decade or two and you end up being pretty comfortable, even in an expensive town like Boulder.
To be fair I don't have any kids, which is a huge difference between me and some of my friends. Relationships can also be pretty expensive. It's not just the dating that adds up (if you pay for everything especially), but afterward when you decide to make a go of it with someone. You need to either find someone who has the same attitude about money that you do, or someone who can at least pay their way where they are profligate. I did well with this all the way along. Most of the women I have lived with have been more or less like me, not huge consumers or big believers in material things being a source of happiness.
My current girlfriend is a bit profligate, but she also makes about $100,000 a year so she can afford to be. I still end up loaning her money from time to time, but because of my influence she has been putting away 20% of her income for retirement. We should be fine when we retire, and hopefully I'll have the option of retiring a bit early if I choose to. I'm still about half a million away from being completely comfortable with that, though the closer to official retirement age I get (and the pensions I'll get then) the less cushion I'll need.
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Rogan Josh
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I don't really understand the willingness to have debt in the form of a property mortgage but the unwillingness to incur debt for an education. People seem quite happy to be $100k in debt to buy their house but balk at being $20k in debt to get a decent education. I understand that a martgage is cheaper than renting, so being in debt to buy your home is actually a saving, but the same is true with a good education because your earning potential is higher.
If you want to have an education, someone has to pay for it. Why shouldn't it be you?
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:34
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I just disagree with the whole idea of getting debt when you study. I mean if you have to do it, then there's no other options but if you can avoid it at any costs, I recommend to do that.
Why? Like I said earlier, when you graduate, that's when you need the money the most. You need to get a place to yourself, and you might not have any capital or savings of your own. So you would be getting a new loan for that most likely, and having student loans is not a good idea during that time. You need maximum amount of money at your own use right then, if you want to make it even rather sooner than later. I see debt as limiting factor to your freedom. You have responsibility to that debt, and it limits your options.
That's why I rather take the debt I really need like for a house instead of having multiple loans on many things that weren't absolutely freaking necessary. It will be easier later on... Student loan is often considered like.. how should I say it.. out of sight, out of mind kind of thing.
Personally I just don't feel comfortable owning anyone anything. It makes me feel restricted, and I likes me freedom.
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asleepathewheel
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listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
And even more, they say 'take loan! It's not that bad, you get a good deal!'. My ass, you don't know if you can get a job or not when you graduate. People just graduate to unemplyoment line right now. So forget about that, play safe, don't get any debt at all and look out for yourself, because no one else is doing that. Fat pigs just like to pleasure themselves so no shame in little selfish thinking here. |
Most US student loans are by the government, they give you 6 or 9 months to start paying off. And you can defer beginning payments usually until you have a job. Furthermore, you can consolidate your loans at a lower rate these days. Student loans are a much better deal than others, I would much rather have 5k in sl debt than credit card or car loan debt.
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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I can't believe people think of a mortgage as real debt. Yeah, you have to make payments with interest, but it's fully secured with real property. Unless you're in some insane high-ratio situation, or an extremely volatile real estate market, having a mortgage is one of the smartest things you can do (assuming, of course, that you have enough for a reasonable down payment and can comfortably afford your monthly payments).
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:34
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quote:
I can't believe people think of a mortgage as real debt. Yeah, you have to make payments with interest, but it's fully secured with real property. Unless you're in some insane high-ratio situation, or an extremely volatile real estate market, having a mortgage is one of the smartest things you can do (assuming, of course, that you have enough for a reasonable down payment and can comfortably afford your monthly payments). |
I agree
I think the thing that gets ppl however is that they invest in a "home" and not a "house". If one looked their "investment" similar to that as any other investment they wouldn't end up a) purchasing more than they can afford, b) sitting on 10s of thousands of dollars in equity while whinning that they don't have any money, c) not depreciating their house, and d) sitting on it all the way into foreclosure when they should just get the hell out why they can....
People think, home, pay it off, then I'll be set... No, you'll have a free place to live, but still won't be making (not earning) any money.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
Good financial management is more important than salary. |
Yep, bingo. Live within your means. Have a plan. Get rid of whatever debt you do have ASAP.
I don't really count a mortgage in the same category as a personal loan or credit card debt. The house has value. You can sell it, and most likely cover the mortgage or at least come close. A mortgaged home is better than renting, where the money is just pissed away. EDIT: Kontiki beat me to it.
I have a good friend with upwards of $10,000 in credit card debt. I don't really know the exact figure, but I bet it's around that much. He drives me NUTS. He could pay that off, and it really wouldn't take him that long.
Instead, what does he do? He takes out a home equity line of credit (4% rate, as opposed to his 9% credit card rate) and uses it for new cabinets in his kitchen, installation of a couple of ceiling fans, and some painting, and at the end will throw ~$5,000 of it at his credit card debt.
Meanwhile, he's going to Amsterdam for a week in August for his 30th b-day ($1300, plus whatever he spends over there), and intends a trip to Southeast Asia next year that will cost several thousand dollars.
In addition, when he had to get rid of his old car (SUV, actually) a year or two ago, did he go out and buy a used economy car? Nope. He goes and buys a new Dodge Durango (another SUV).
It ****ing boggles the mind. Ten thousand plus in credit card debt in and of itself boggles the mind. But then having the ability to pay it off pretty quick and NOT DOING SO?!?!
Some people can be so smart in certain areas and so dumb in others. This includes me, of course.
-Arrian
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Velociryx
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of Candle'Bre
Apr 1999
time: 05:34
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Well, I'm just on the outer edge of that group (soon to be 36), and I did take on debt to get thru school (~12k), bought my first car on my own (another ~18k), paid all of the above off, scraped together a down payment for a house, had a sterling credit rating, and then got corporate downsized out of a job after making my 3rd mortgage payment.
End of the year is a sorry time to get downsized, by the way....most companies have already allocated all their budget money for the year and are just plain not interested in hiring.
Mucked up my sterling credit rating to keep things going and keep the house, so now I'm ~20k in debt with a 110k mortgage on top of it...working again (new year, companies started hiring), and looking for better jobs that'll put me making what I was before, but it can really turn around quickly. I'd hate to think what might have happened if I had been downsized before getting the old (first round) debts paid off....reversals can happen very quickly, and I count myself lucky to have pulled through this one....am taking no chances, that's for sure. Get this debt off my back, pay the house off double quick, and then use the equity to buy investment props. Fingers crossed all the while!
-=Vel=-
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher
I agree
I think the thing that gets ppl however is that they invest in a "home" and not a "house". If one looked their "investment" similar to that as any other investment they wouldn't end up a) purchasing more than they can afford, b) sitting on 10s of thousands of dollars in equity while whinning that they don't have any money, c) not depreciating their house, and d) sitting on it all the way into foreclosure when they should just get the hell out why they can....
People think, home, pay it off, then I'll be set... No, you'll have a free place to live, but still won't be making (not earning) any money. |
Spot on. IMO, you have to keep the mindset that if need be, you dump the place and pull your money out. In the meantime, you at least have something to show for your monthy housing costs in the form of built up equity. Rent is just flushing money down the drain.
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Japher
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Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:34
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I still rent, and it drives me nuts. Yet, homes around here start at about 450k... Ain't got enough yet. Sucks Much Suck.
I also have a friend like Arrian's, I haven't seen him since he got married (about 6 months ago), but I could really care less because I was getting sick of "I am broke, I owe so much!" then turning around and bying a $4,000 TV, and $6,000 stereo system to boot... Shudd up alread!.
It's fewls like this that would agree with that article and take pitty in themselves instead of attempting to change their life style.
When I got married my wife had $4,000 in credit card debt. To me, that was way to much. I told her she could carry $1,000 on her card and no more, really it should be paid off. After a year of watching her with this it was up to $6,000! I told her if she was gonna pissss the money away like that she might as well "pay herself first"... I made her give me $500/month (we keep our accounts separate, and have one joint savings account in a money market). After about 2 months she got the picture. She hadn't aquired anything new, and wasn't needing anything, but was still broke. I gave her back the 1k that had accumilated to put to her card, which she matched, and 6 months later she was at 0 debt. She felt good about it, and has been doing good at not spending recently. Yet, it took a hard reality check for her to get that spending doesn't get you what you want.
I don't think I want handle her money, or for us to combine accounts, as my friend I mentioned above did with his wife. I want my wife to be fiscally responsible for herself. When her company cancled her 401k I took her down to Schwab and showed her how to perform a roll-over. Since, she has done nothing with that money that is just sitting there. I like rubbing my IRA growth in her face... Maybe one day she'll take the initative to learn a little something about money.
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dainbramage20
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Chicago
Feb 2004
time: 05:34
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I have over 150,000$ in consolidated debt. But I bring in plenty to pay it off. I also have a Debt Insurance policy
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by dainbramage20
I have over 150,000$ in consolidated debt. But I bring in plenty to pay it off. I also have a Debt Insurance policy |
Including mortgage(s)? Because that's a pretty high unsecured debt load...
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dainbramage20
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Chicago
Feb 2004
time: 05:34
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Of course including mortage. But my debt is covered by my income.
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
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Yeah, but as I say, I wouldn't really count a mortgage as real debt. I mean, I wouldn't say I'm in very much debt, if at all. But if you are counting mortgages, then I'm neary $300k in debt. But I'd be very much in a positive position if I sold my place.
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18-03-2004 14:02
That's why you don't want to get loan here in the first place, because the only place that doesn't give BS promises is the bank that says YOU PAY BACK. They keep their word.
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