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GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:24
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Young, fresh, ambitious, in massive debt Get a bigger avatar today!

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0411/fkoerner.php

A minor summary for the lazy: Young people in the US leave college with an average debt of 20k, and are likely never to be out of debt again once they get low paying beginning jobs, a mortage, health care costs and so forth.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:25
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Suffering from ads?

I am not in debt, have a high paying job that covers my helath care and I can't even get a mortgage! What's up with that?!

Anyway, your point?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:27
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Read the damned article you!

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:28
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I don't see the US love of mortgages, and debt in general. Can't you guys buy things with your own money?

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
I don't see the US love of mortgages, and debt in general. Can't you guys buy things with your own money?


What money?

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:32
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Put an end to popups!

Rent then like we do. (Bloody property obsession???)

-Jam

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:35
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If you don't have money, don't cripple yourself by buying a house (rent a fricking low-rent flat), don't cripple yourself by buying a car (use the fricking public transportation), and generally don't cripple yourself with paying a terrible private education (go to a fricking public university).


Well, forget it, you're in the US. Such basic services don't exist

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:38
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Tired of ads?

wrong.

0

Richelieu is offline Richelieu
Warlord
Gatineau
Dec 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:38
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Still on the campaign trail there, Spiffor?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:42
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Well, I happen to believe it

I strongly dislike the extreme individualism in the US, where property is such a be-all end-all. It makes the US terrible when it comes to public service, things as basic as a decent public transportation for those who can't afford a car, decent public housing for the very many people who can't afford a house (this includes plenty of middle class people who have to be indebted for the rest of their lives), and a decent public education that is as good as private ed.

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:50
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Whatever.

The problem isn't the system, it's those who are in the system just don't know how to work it, and the system doesn't teach you that. In general, most people know nothing about money. That's no big suprise.

Everything you get in life will cost you time or money. You just have to learn to maximize the backend returns.

Getting and education and going $20,000 into debt is not that bad when you look at the whole spreadsheet and not just one column. Student loans sit aroun 4%, which is awesome, so most graduates take their time in paying it off even though they make $52,000/year!

$52,000/year is a lot of money, and can get you a lot of things. However, ppl would rather get a BMW over a Honda, go out to dinner instead of cook it, buy their dream home instead of a rental, take lavish vacations instead of just laying around the house. Most people get a sticker shock at what they are making, and the money is ussually out of their pocket before it is even in... This, is called a liability.

I really don't like articles that complain about ppl not being able to handle money and take an air that "it's not fair". What's not fair? That ppl are stupid? No it's not fair, but everyone has the same chance (mostly), and that is the only way to make it fair.

I had a college loan, it's gone, and has been gone for 2 years now, 3 years after I graduated. I have a car loan, but it's figured into my cash flow. I was $24,000 in debt 5 years ago, and now I am up more than $25,000! If I can do it, anyone can.

Home: Buying your home is a liability. It costs you to live in it. Buying a rental that can create you an income is an asset. Get enough assets, your home can become one too.

Credit Cards: Why have one? To build credit to increase your borrowing power. It is not there to put stuff on that you don't have the money to pay for now. End of story.

Loans: They are there to allow you to gather income producing assets. Not generate debt.

---

quote:
I strongly dislike the extreme individualism in the US, where property is such a be-all end-all.


I'll agree with your points, but I like it. PT and the likes are something I already pay for, if it sucks than blame the government not the capitalism. For it is capitalism that gives the government so much money to mishandle.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
Emperor
all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 04:59
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Hah, we in the UK will have you beat very soon. In a decade or so, our graduates will have debts of about $50,000. And the first home most people buy will cost around £200,000. Huzzah!

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:09
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That's the price the UK must pay for having the lowest unemployment in the developed world.

-Jam

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:13
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I'm not in debt.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:15 Visit Asher's homepage!
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I'm going to graduate university debt-free and with $30,000 in my pocket. Possibly another $40,000-$50,000 if I get an internship position.

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:18
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It was worth bending over for then, Asher?

-Jam

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:18
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I'm not in debt. I got a scholarship to where I am going. But people put themselves into debt when they go to hugely overpriced Third Tier Liberal Arts Colleges when they could go to a perfectly good State University.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:21 Visit Asher's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
It was worth bending over for then, Asher?

-Jam

English, Jam, English.

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
It was worth bending over for then, Asher?

-Jam


Jamski
So this is the Jamski when he's not spreading his BGII-wisdom

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:31
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I won't be graduating with any debt. This is of course due to the fact that education is gruesomely cheap here.

I probably spend more on beer and similar crap than on schoolbooks, apartment, and anything else

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:32 Visit Asher's homepage!
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That pretty much explains why Belgium is rather useless in the world.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

Donate to the Red Cross
Gotta have more cowbell!
Mar 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:33
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$20,000?

That would be heavenly.

By the time I graduate in June, I'll be in the neighborhood of $170,000.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Guynemer
By the time I graduate in June, I'll be in the neighborhood of $170,000.

This is ungodly. I don't even think I could make that much money in a decade.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:36 Visit Asher's homepage!
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He's going to be a Doctor, I think he'll manage.

Guynemer is offline Guynemer
King

Donate to the Red Cross
Gotta have more cowbell!
Mar 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:40
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On the contrary.

For the duration of my residency (3-4 years), I will be making around $36k, which is considerably below minimum wage when one considers the hours I will be working.

Once I'm done with residency, I will do much better; but I will also have the burden of malpractice insurance, in addition to whatever additional costs I haven't even conceived of yet. When one considers that pediatrics is the poorest-paid specialty in medicine, it will very likely be on the order of 20-30 years, at best, before my debt is paid off.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:41
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I owe ~30,000

~22,000 from undergrad

~8,000 because I have not been able to live within my means in grad school

I think I was just tired of doing nothing all the time, in undergrad I would do not do anything that cost money because I didn't have any, I would spend a hundred or so per semester on myself (food, housing and tuition were all payed for by scholarships, loans, and work that I did)

I think I need to get myself back under control now though

Jon Miller

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:42
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yah, doctors don't make their money back for 10ish years

Jon Miller

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
That pretty much explains why Belgium is rather useless in the world.


Well, Canadians can make Americans laugh at them, that's quite an achievement.
But you guys never make Americans get really pissed off, sissyboys!

Oncle Boris is offline Oncle Boris
Prince
Once in a brown moon
Aug 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
I'm going to graduate university debt-free and with $30,000 in my pocket. Possibly another $40,000-$50,000 if I get an internship position.


You live at your parent's house, most assuredly, and I suppose that they are also paying for your tuition.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-03-2004 05:48 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Japher

I really don't like articles that complain about ppl not being able to handle money and take an air that "it's not fair". What's not fair? That ppl are stupid? No it's not fair, but everyone has the same chance (mostly), and that is the only way to make it fair.


** finds himself agreeing with Japher -- again **

 
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