20-03-2004 07:35									#31
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Yeah, let your community sink into poverty. Let it lose it's culture and identity. Let it become dependant on multi-nationals. If it means you can buy some sweat-shop made crap at a low price, anyways

Materialists can just die. Go buy your filth and roll in it.



Support your community.

Last edited by General Ludd on 20-03-2004 at 07:40

	20-03-2004 07:38									#32
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Yeah, let your community sink into poverty. Let it lose it's culture and identity. Let it become dependant on multi-nationals. If it means you can by some sweat-shop made crap at a low price, anyways Materialists can just die. Go buy your filth and roll in it. Support your community.

Which is why I'm glad there is a good skate shop nearby. I won't go near a WM Sk8board

	20-03-2004 08:13									#33
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quote: Target is the alternative?

Target rocks!

Those mom-and-pop stores suck. You have to drive around too all these shops just to do get some shopping done. Why should I drive to a DVD seller and then a clothing store and then an appliance store when I can go to one store that sells all of them?

And who cares about the 'culture and identity' of my community. Screw that.

	20-03-2004 08:16									#34
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It's more a matter of where you live. If you are in suburbia, you might as well go to a big box store because either A) there are no mom and pop stores and/or B) there isn't much of a "community" in the traditional sense to put your money back into. It's alot different if you actually live within the city proper, especially one where it's more desirable to live within the city limits than it is in the suburbs.

	20-03-2004 08:24									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Target is the alternative? Target rocks! Those mom-and-pop stores suck. You have to drive around too all these shops just to do get some shopping done. Why should I drive to a DVD seller and then a clothing store and then an appliance store when I can go to one store that sells all of them? And who cares about the 'culture and identity' of my community. Screw that.

Because when you ignore that, jobs dissapear. Why do I care if I pollute the enviroment? It dosent effect me!

When EVERYONE does it, the impact is quite apparent!

	20-03-2004 08:41									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Verto It is unnatural to sell shoes next to car products.

That must be one of the commandments that was broken on Moses's descent from the mountain top, along with 'it is unnatural to remake French comedies in Hollywood', and 'it is unnatural to have Sylvester Stallone in a remake of a Michael Caine film' and 'do not covet Anna Nicole Smith'.

	20-03-2004 08:46									#37
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It is unnatural to have sylvester stallone in ANY film, remake or otherwise.

And Anna Nicole Smith is not attractive.

	20-03-2004 08:51									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Verto It is unnatural to have sylvester stallone in ANY film, remake or otherwise. And Anna Nicole Smith is not attractive.

You see?

Perfectly good commadments, and instead we have rubbish about neighbours' equine quadrupeds- I mean my neighbour has a chihuahua, and I don't covet that bug eyed dustball collector one bit, but thankfully she doesn't own an ass, or we'd be shovelling ass cr@p every day.

And as for this 'no other gods before me rubbish'- we might have prevented 'Rocky V', or 'Stop! Or My Mom Will Shoot!', but no.

Anna Nicole Smith- useful to look at when you get a hair caught in your throat .

	20-03-2004 08:54									#39
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I read an article about Korea Walmart a while back. Apparently their five stores here haven't been doing well since people hate the "warehouse with stuff in it" look (valid point) and seem to be incapable of shopping without insane massives of sales attendants who swoop down on you if you ever stop moving

	20-03-2004 09:27									#40
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Yes I'm becoming spoiled by Korean shopping too, especially as you get more language.

Wal-mart:

Where are all the White Glove people who just stand around bowing?

Where are the dancing KTF girls?

Where are the two girls near the door who say 'Anyong ee Gaseyo"like a song?

No personal touch! Lotte Mart and E-Mart forever!

Do you know that at E-Mart they often bring in benches for people to watch movies in the home theater section? They even take requests! I sometimes go to E-Mart to watch movies.

	20-03-2004 09:33									#41
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Walmart is evil incarnate, rather closing a story than allowing it to be unionized.

Incidentally, I just read an article by Jim Hightower about Costco. They pay their workers three times the amount Walmart does, have better health care, allow them to collectively bargain, and their labor costs manage to be half of Walmart's. Treat your workers decently, and they work better, who'd a thought!

	20-03-2004 09:51									#42
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Young Skywalker here (Kucinich) is a product of mall consumer culture - don't blame him. He has been brainwashed.

Me, OTOH, am a product of New England Yankee tradition in which we cherish our small businesses and shopkeepers.

Wal-Mart is the spawn of Satan. It will ruin the American economy and possiblity the world's in the process. Basically there is nearly no labor jobs left in the States. Most of them have moved south into the Latin America or overseas to Asia. What's left's jobs related to service. People who cannot find jobs due to shortage of labor jobs available are forced to assume jobs which pays the minimum wages or down there such as Wal-Mart. As more people shop at Wal-Mart, they re helping the corporation to expand and justify their suppliers policy. As Wal-Mart expands, they will force out small businesses and other competitors. Resulting in unemployed people who have no choice but to settle for something low such as a job at Wal-Mart which doesn't pay that well. Wal-Mart is also extremely anti-union so workers don't have that much of a chance to fight for higher pay and benefits. Wal-Mart is the disease of the American captialistic system.

Target's OTOH actually give back to the community. 15% of their profits goes back into the community and like a former worker said on this very same thread, they pay well. Better than Wal-Mart anyway.

I refuse to shop at Wal-Mart. They'll have to pry the credit card from my cold dead fingers and it'll self-destruct in their hands, those soulless [censored].

By the way, Costco is a terrific place to apply to if you want a job at a food store. Unlike most companies in the grocery business, they actually care about their employees - it's the official policy that the employees goes first, not the profits. It's their goal to make sure their employees can actually afford to buy a house. How many CEOs would say that and actually back it up?

Unfortunately they have a serious competitor... Sam's Club which happens to be part of the Wal-Mart evil cankerous empire.

	20-03-2004 09:58									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui And who cares about the 'culture and identity' of my community. Screw that.

This 'culture and identity' you are so dismissive is the very fabric of the American democracy. It's a shame that so many Americans are so uncaring about civic virtues. This is why politicans today are selfish and shifty. Bush is a good example of this dangerous attitude.

Without any sense of culture and identity, it's so easy to be callous to your fellow citizens' plight until it has happened to you. Beware, when the hangman comes for you, there may be nobody else left to protect you.

	20-03-2004 10:06									#44
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V, I think something has gone seriously wrong in your perceptions of the world. Walmart brings you products at low cost and great convenience. And you are nauseated?

You are indeed sick and should go to your local mental institution to be committed ASAP.

	20-03-2004 10:08									#45
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Ned:
Would you rather pay low prices or buy American?

(Trapped! )

	20-03-2004 10:39									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Walmart is evil incarnate, rather closing a story than allowing it to be unionized. Incidentally, I just read an article by Jim Hightower about Costco. They pay their workers three times the amount Walmart does, have better health care, allow them to collectively bargain, and their labor costs manage to be half of Walmart's. Treat your workers decently, and they work better, who'd a thought!

Costco treats their workers well, pay them well and have awsome benifits.

Yet it consistently turns a profit... HMMMMMM

for costco, way a big corporation like that should be run.

	20-03-2004 10:42									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Ned V, I think something has gone seriously wrong in your perceptions of the world. Walmart brings you products at low cost and great convenience. And you are nauseated? You are indeed sick and should go to your local mental institution to be committed ASAP.

I feel sick because I knowingly supported something I know to be well, evil.

quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar Ned: Would you rather pay low prices or buy American? (Trapped! )

I wont buy any clothes made in a sweatshop, if that is what you mean.... so basically nothing made in asia, or south america...

	20-03-2004 11:15									#48
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If you haven't noticed, the people in Wal-Mart aren't exactly geniuses. Unless they are retirees, they don't have a whole lot going for them anyway.

ACK!

	20-03-2004 11:35									#49
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quote: Because when you ignore that, jobs dissapear.

I haven't seen that at all. In fact service jobs have only increased in the last few years. Which jobs have dissapeared? What the little shopkeeper who has expensive crap now has to work for a company? Boo hoo.

quote: This 'culture and identity' you are so dismissive is the very fabric of the American democracy.

Bullshit. The 'fabric' of American democracy is the Constitution, not some small, useless local store which can't hope to compete with the bigwigs. And I wouldn't mind wiping out the 'fabric' of municipal government, which in most areas is as close to a one party machine as you'll ever see.

quote: Would you rather pay low prices or buy American?

Ah, you have indeed trapped Ned . As for me, give me low prices.

	20-03-2004 11:38									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Target rocks! Those mom-and-pop stores suck. You have to drive around too all these shops just to do get some shopping done. Why should I drive to a DVD seller and then a clothing store and then an appliance store when I can go to one store that sells all of them? And who cares about the 'culture and identity' of my community. Screw that.

Well... I live in a very nice place, where you can do all of this without a car and without walking more than 2 or 3 kilometers. Oh sorry, I must be a commie or something?

	20-03-2004 11:42									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Which jobs have dissapeared?

Hmmm... the manufacturing jobs?

	20-03-2004 12:20									#52
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Which would have disappeared even if a WalMart didn't exist. How has Walmart destroyed manufacturing jobs?

	20-03-2004 12:25									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Which would have disappeared even if a WalMart didn't exist. How has Walmart destroyed manufacturing jobs?

It's sending them overseas. I wouldn't be against it, of course, if at least they required from sub-contractors that they offer decent working conditions.

	20-03-2004 12:29									#54
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quote: It's sending them overseas.

As are every other manufacturing company. The small business and shopkeepers buy their goods from those overseas manufacturing plants as well. So how is Walmart destroyed those manufacturing jobs when if Wallmart didn't exist, those jobs would be overseas anyway?

quote: I wouldn't be against it, of course, if at least they required from sub-contractors that they offer decent working conditions.

Compared to the status of other jobs in those country, they do.

	20-03-2004 12:33									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Costco treats their workers well, pay them well and have awsome benifits. Yet it consistently turns a profit... HMMMMMM for costco, way a big corporation like that should be run.

Yes. Their profit margin's somewhat smaller than others although.

	20-03-2004 12:36									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui As are every other manufacturing company. The small business and shopkeepers buy their goods from those overseas manufacturing plants as well. So how is Walmart destroyed those manufacturing jobs when if Wallmart didn't exist, those jobs would be overseas anyway?

No. Wal-Mart has a choice. They could open those jobs they need to meet their needs here in the States. But they chose not to.

	20-03-2004 12:41									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui [Bullshit. The 'fabric' of American democracy is the Constitution, not some small, useless local store which can't hope to compete with the bigwigs. And I wouldn't mind wiping out the 'fabric' of municipal government, which in most areas is as close to a one party machine as you'll ever see.

That's my point I'm making. We allowed those municipal governments to become an 'one party machine.'

Constitution is the heart of the American government yes but basically it's just a piece of paper - equally useless as a receipt or expired ticket stub. What gives the Constitution 'life' is the system of check and balance. To ensure this system is functioning properly, we need a citizenry that's actively involved in the politics, to force accountability into the system. You can't have this kind of citizenry and civic commitment if there's no culture and identity binding each other together.

	20-03-2004 12:44									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui As are every other manufacturing company. The small business and shopkeepers buy their goods from those overseas manufacturing plants as well. So how is Walmart destroyed those manufacturing jobs when if Wallmart didn't exist, those jobs would be overseas anyway?

Not exactly. Small boutiques don't have as much financial incentives as large warehouses do, they don't have shareholders, etc. Customers go to them because service and quality are often better, and are less picky about the price.

quote: Compared to the status of other jobs in those country, they do.

Not always. In Asia and Africa, it usually is better to work in a sweatshop, but in semi-developed places like South America, sweatshops have brought disaster. Besides, I believe there are some minimum work standards that every corporation should follow, regardless of country or economic conditions.

	20-03-2004 12:46									#59
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quote: They could open those jobs they need to meet their needs here in the States. But they chose not to.

Why should they when it is cheaper to buy items from overseas manufacturing plants? And if you don't think Target and Costco don't buy products from overseas manufacturing, you are delusional.

quote: We allowed those municipal governments to become an 'one party machine.'

Yes, but Walmart didn't exist in the 1820s .

quote: we need a citizenry that's actively involved in the politics, to force accountability into the system. You can't have this kind of citizenry and civic commitment if there's no culture and identity binding each other together.

Such an idealistic view. The most corrupt years of US politics were when the citizenry were actively involved in politics. They backed a party because everyone was that party and that fostered the one-part city. They had 'culture'. They had 'identity'.

So you can take your culture and identity and shove it. It just leads to blind party following and mass corruption (much more than today).

	20-03-2004 15:11									#60
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quote: they hire illegal aliens

we have legal aliens on this planet??