31-03-2004 00:59									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue "White committing crimes may not have been stopped; they may have been let go with a warning; the prosecutor may have decided there was not enough evidence; the jury may have found their pleas more believable." All of which you provide no proof for. "Your position is that you BELIEVE blacks commit more crimes because of some trait magically linked to their skin colour, jumping ability and affinity for collard greens" I never said anything about crime. But it is true that the differences can be linked with skin colour (and I never said because of their colour)

Park is right. Black people, at least in the US, DO commit more crimes than white people. This is a fact, but its not racist, its economic.

Who is more likely to want to rob a bank, a rich guy or a poor guy? And who is poorer in the US, blacks or whites? Now it doesn't mean that they aren't poorer partly because of racism, but it also doesn't make the argument that 'black people commit more crimes' racist.

	31-03-2004 01:00									#32
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quote: There are no significant differences between races, as we are all about 99.99999% genetically identical. And the .0000001 is the information which determines your skin color and other various family and/or ethnic features. But these do translate into racial differences, so Cali is correct. Though keep in mind you're also 95% identical to a chimp, and 50% gentically indentical to a banana.

Irrelevant.

	31-03-2004 01:04									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue Irrelevant.

How so? I was pointing out there there are racial differences, but that it doesn't mean anything. Isn't that kind of the gist of this thread, stu?

Stu, I think ultimately you are right in what you are saying here, but you're using the wrong words. "Racial" implies biology, while "culture" implies behavior. I'm sure what you mean to say is that there are noticable behavioral differences between different segments of society (which can lead to crime), not that any particular race is BIOLOGICALLY prone to crime, more so that others.

	31-03-2004 01:05									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe So every time I eat a banana I'm 1/2 cannibal?

Thats true.

	31-03-2004 01:08									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Park Avenue "White committing crimes may not have been stopped; they may have been let go with a warning; the prosecutor may have decided there was not enough evidence; the jury may have found their pleas more believable." All of which you provide no proof for. "Your position is that you BELIEVE blacks commit more crimes because of some trait magically linked to their skin colour, jumping ability and affinity for collard greens" I never said anything about crime. But it is true that the differences can be linked with skin colour (and I never said because of their colour)

You never said a lot of things.

You did say, on the other thread, "the disproportionately high number of ethnics committing crimes...is an obvious fact in Britain and US"

And you continue to bemoan the attacking of allegations that negative traits are ethnically linked as "racism." Despite the fact that IT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF THE WORD "RACISM".

So you don' t have to say it.

	31-03-2004 01:12									#36
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Thats true.

In for a penny in for a pound. Might as well start serving baby.

Get in my belly.

	31-03-2004 01:22									#37
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Park is right. Black people, at least in the US, DO commit more crimes than white people. This is a fact, but its not racist, its economic. Who is more likely to want to rob a bank, a rich guy or a poor guy? And who is poorer in the US, blacks or whites? Now it doesn't mean that they aren't poorer partly because of racism, but it also doesn't make the argument that 'black people commit more crimes' racist.

Where's your proof, Jimmy? I'm in the mood for deconstruction.

	31-03-2004 01:25									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp Where's your proof, Jimmy? I'm in the mood for deconstruction.

You doubt that blacks in the US, per capita, commit more crimes than whites?

What I'm saying is that blacks are poorer, and therefore commit more crime. Its not racial, although historically the reasons why they are poorer are probably racial/racist.

And I think, behind it all, that is what Stu is saying too.

	31-03-2004 01:27									#39
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Try reading the other thread on the subject. Then take a wild shot in the dark about my feelings on the subject.

	31-03-2004 01:32									#40
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More blacks are arrested, tried, and convicted of crimes, yes.

Doesn't mean they commit more crimes. And when one considers the relative rates of conviction between whites and blacks, there is very good reason to believe that racism plays a large role in who gets arrested to begin with, let alone convincted.

	31-03-2004 01:46									#41
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quote: More blacks are arrested, tried, and convicted of crimes, yes. Doesn't mean they commit more crimes. And when one considers the relative rates of conviction between whites and blacks, there is very good reason to believe that racism plays a large role in who gets arrested to begin with, let alone convincted.

Or, they could just be worse at hiding the bodies...

The profile for a serial killer is a white male... Why? What racism!!!

	31-03-2004 02:42									#42
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Technically it does.

Why? It's a scientific question, not a moral one.

Show me proof that in all non-superficial matters all races are equal, then you can call me a bad person for refusing to believe it.

	31-03-2004 02:46									#43
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quote: The profile for a serial killer is a white male... Why? What racism!!!

Its because we have smaller jaws.

	31-03-2004 02:52									#44
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Park, has it ever crossed your peanut-sized brain the thought that higher minority crime rates could be because whites get a better start and more chances than minorities?

	31-03-2004 02:55									#45
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That's certainly a factor.

	31-03-2004 03:06									#46
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Does anyone have any data for crime rates across income groups, and then income groups across race? That would be helpful to know.

	31-03-2004 03:15									#47
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No. That's the point.

There are figures around conviction rates for certain crimes, but that's another matter.

	31-03-2004 03:15									#48
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Don't start getting into crime data, if its anything like the other thread you'll get into a quagmire of how the stats are skewed by a myriad of different causes.

	31-03-2004 03:33									#49
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It was done to death. After controlling for income, schooling, average income in the neighborhood and all other explanatory variables one can think of blacks still do have higher crime rate. Of course one cannot rule out that this is due to racial profiling or so such.

Methinks nobody can deny that different countries/ cultures/ ethnic groups have a different set of social traits. It is also fairly obvious that African-Americans have their own culture which is in some ways similar to and in some ways different from the overall American culture (if there is such a thing ). So correspondingly I see nothing obviously wrong in suggesting that certain cultural traits of AA make them more likely to commit crimes (which may or may not be true). It's just a theory in the same league as the "protestant work ethics" or suchlike.

It is just so happens that a cultural divide between AA and other Americans coincides with the racial division. So a statement like above automatically gets labelled as rasist, although it really isn't.

	31-03-2004 03:37									#50
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Technically it does.

Not if it's true

(I'm not saying it is, just point out )

	31-03-2004 03:39									#51
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn There are no significant differences between races, as we are all about 99.99999% genetically identical. And the .0000001 is the information which determines your skin color and other various family and/or ethnic features. But these do translate into racial differences, so Cali is correct. Though keep in mind you're also 95% identical to a chimp, and 50% gentically indentical to a banana.

Irrelevant. Genes don't measure how similar your traits are. There is some correlation, but having a 95% match doesn't mean I'm 95% like them.

	31-03-2004 03:41									#52
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quote: Genes don't measure how similar your traits are

Teach us young skywalker.

Have you stepped into the Nedaverse?!!

	31-03-2004 05:02									#53
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quote: When we find something "negative" out about ethnic minorities, why are people so quick to shout "racism"?

I don't understand what you mean with that, actually. An example would be helpful.

EDIT: Oh, he ment things like this:

quote: PA, IMO, has a point. "White Men Can't Jump", we have no rhythmn, we can't rap, we like NASCAR, etc... These are awful prejudisms. Yet, no white man is pointing a finger and yelling "racism"... Yet, if you say "Black Neighborhoods see more crime" (a bad stat.) you get called a racist just as quickly as if you say "Black people are better a certain sports" (a good stat)...

Never heard stuff like this in Finland. You Americans are weird.

	31-03-2004 05:07									#54
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EDIT: Checked the word from an English dictionary which is written for English-speaking people. It was a translational error. You Americans have a weird language, too.

Last edited by VJ on 31-03-2004 at 05:13

	31-03-2004 05:09									#55
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That isn't a difference between two races.

	31-03-2004 05:22									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Teach us young skywalker. Have you stepped into the Nedaverse?!!

No, it's simple biology.

If my genome has a 95% match with a monkey's, that really doesn't tell me anything about how similar I am phenotypically (that is, in terms of traits that are expressed) to a monkey. It just shows probable evolutionary relationship, and it is likely that we share some characteristics. This is for two reasons - first, a heck of a lot of the genome codes for relatively basic things universal to ALL eukaryotic cells, from fungi to dinosaurs to protozoans, and have nothing to do with the multicellular level. Second, relatively small changes in the genome can have HUGE consequences at the level of the entire organism.

	31-03-2004 05:23									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Verto That isn't a difference between two races.

Besides skin color and certain genetic tendencies, and the fact that many people of a particular race happen to share similar circumstances.

	31-03-2004 05:29									#58
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quote: Irrelevant. Genes don't measure how similar your traits are. There is some correlation, but having a 95% match doesn't mean I'm 95% like them.

please, please, please, explain why I look like my relatives. I had thought it was because of genes, but you say otherwise.

	31-03-2004 05:35									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us quote: Irrelevant. Genes don't measure how similar your traits are. There is some correlation, but having a 95% match doesn't mean I'm 95% like them. please, please, please, explain why I look like my relatives. I had thought it was because of genes, but you say otherwise.

* VJ gives skywalker a RK-62 *
Punish the ignorant prole scum with thine knowledge, shall you?

If I'll try, I'll most probably **** something up with this unpractical, anomalous, strange language again.

	31-03-2004 05:43									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Space05us quote: Irrelevant. Genes don't measure how similar your traits are. There is some correlation, but having a 95% match doesn't mean I'm 95% like them. please, please, please, explain why I look like my relatives. I had thought it was because of genes, but you say otherwise.

You share a smaller percent of your genome with your mom than you do with a male chimp, say, but you are more phenotypically similar to her than to the male chimp (correct me if I'm wrong ). % correlation of genotype cannot be directly translated to % correlation of phenotype.