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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > No GM Crop in the UK "For the Foreseeable Future"...
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VJ is offline VJ
Prince
Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 19:38
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quote:
1. GM food is absolutely unncessary. Food shortage is not caused by a shortfall in food production. It's the distribution.

quote:
"We", as in EU countries have too much food since our own spineless goverments are licking farmers (the only special interest group in EU currently) butts' and giving huge subsidies to 'em for farming (farming subsidies [incl. tobacco subs.] take up more than 2/3 of the federal budget, don't they?). If we cut down the subsidies, the overproduction will stall and we'll save a ****load of money. Effectivily genetically modified food is more efficient to produce, thus more land is freed for special biodiversity areas and cities. And let's not forget that it also means that less workers are needed to produce the same amount as before.

Absolutely unnecessary?

quote:
2. GM crop seeds are sterile, that means the farmers cannot harvest seeds for next year, but must rely on large GM companies to supply them.

quote:
It's the same people complaining about that NOW who before were complaining that the seeds could reproduce and "contaminate" other plants.


quote:
4. GM crops kill things like butterflies, insects that pollenate the plants. Good move, that.

"and finally... if you eat this food, CUTE BUTTERFLIES WILL DIE!" You can't be seriously saying that this would have any effects to insect population that would mean their extinction... can you?

quote:
GM crop was better for the environment that the organic crop

Can I stress this enough? Properly genetically modified crops ARE better for the environment than 'ordinary' crops: Since they produce more, they require LESS LAND FOR FARMING. This land is freed for nature, thus gives MORE ROOM FOR PARKS AND FORESTS. Many animal species which require large territory and forest to live are in the brink of extinction because human farmers have taken most of their growing enviroment, GM food would SAVE THESE SPECIES.

Last edited by VJ on 01-04-2004 at 19:49

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 19:46
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Good for the UK, they don't want to be guinea pigs.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 21:59 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Cort Haus
I'm left hoping that the farmers of the third world are not denied access to this technology, so that they can improve their yields, enjoy a surplus and see economic growth.


The farmers of the 3rd world can't afford this technology. It will drive them ou of business.

quote:
btw - in some trials the GM crop was better for the environment that the organic crop


I call BS.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 22:01 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by VJ
Can I stress this enough? Properly genetically modified crops ARE better for the environment than 'ordinary' crops: Since they produce more, they require LESS LAND FOR FARMING. This land is freed for nature, thus gives MORE ROOM FOR PARKS AND FORESTS


Right! All that farmland is going to be snapped up by the government and restored to its natural state.

Or maybe, it will be used to build new subdivisions. Hardly better for the envionment.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 22:09
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Pesticide resitent crops mean that they can drench fields on toxics without having to worry about the crop dying.
Why would you want pesticide resistent crops when pest resistent crops would make you more money?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 22:14
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Bunch of luddites you people are.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
Emperor
all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 22:52
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As long as people can separate their irrational fear of science and base their dislike of GM crops on a rational fear of what big business does, they're not luddites.

Sandman is offline Sandman
Prince
Sinister Penguin
Aug 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 23:06
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Europeans are overwhelmingly pro-science. Even controversial stuff like stem cell research is generally supported, because it has obvious possible benefits. GM foods aren't supported because there's no need for them. It's like trying to sell snow to the Eskimos.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 23:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibsie
As long as people can separate their irrational fear of science and base their dislike of GM crops on a rational fear of what big business does, they're not luddites.


I think you're confused. Should read:


As long as people can separate their irrational fear of science and base their dislike of GM crops on a rational fear of what big business does, they're luddites.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
Emperor
all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 23:26
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I was not aware that the definition of a Luddite was someone who thinks about something rationally and makes conscious decisions based upon that rational thought.

cinch is offline cinch
Chieftain
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibsie
As long as people can separate their irrational fear of science and base their dislike of GM crops on a rational fear of what big business does, they're not luddites.


Exactly!

cinch is offline cinch
Chieftain
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jul 2002
time: 22:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 23:39
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Bunch of luddites you people are.


"When a person becomes a movie critic, it is understood that they are a great lover of film. A music critic is understood to be an enthusiast of the musical arts. But when someone dares to criticise techonology, they are branded a luddite. Why?"

-Vandana Shiva (paraphrased)

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 23:43 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Why would you want pesticide resistent crops when pest resistent crops would make you more money?


Think about who some of these companies are. Monsanto is the maker of Roundup.

General Ludd is offline General Ludd
Emperor
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 01-04-2004 23:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibsie
I was not aware that the definition of a Luddite was someone who thinks about something rationally and makes conscious decisions based upon that rational thought.


Well, they do say you learn something everyday.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
Emperor
all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 00:00
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So the Luddites were good, not backward-thinking people? Wowsers.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Think about who some of these companies are. Monsanto is the maker of Roundup.
Think who buys the seeds. Farmers. Pesticide resistent crops provide no benefit for them. Pest resistent crops however...

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
Emperor
all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 01:59
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What is your point? There are far more engineered crops on the market with genes for pesticide resistance in them than there are with the Bt genes for producing their own pesticides. Besides which, I'm not sure that these toxins are deadly to all the pests and pathogens that thye need to be anyway, in which case the farmer uses pesticides as well anyway...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 02:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Gibsie
What is your point?
Me? I'm just hanging around in the vain hope that someone would answer VJ's points with something other than handwaving.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 02:05 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Think who buys the seeds. Farmers. Pesticide resistent crops provide no benefit for them.


Sure they do The farmer can then douse his fields with pesticides so that nothing besides his crop lives. Roundup-Ready Soybeans are a huge crop.

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 02:06 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Think about who some of these companies are. Monsanto is the maker of Roundup.


Precisely why I don't want to be eating GM food manufactured by these guys - once bitten...

We live in an age where companies see no problem effectively turning cattle into cannibals by feeding them bonemeal made from cattle in the name of profit - the memory of BSE is still vivid in the minds of people in the UK...

I want to know my prime steak had a happy life gambolling around the fields munching on lush grass and not getting pumped full of Bovine Growth Hormones thank you very much!

I am happy to pay a premium for this...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 02:09
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Sure they do.
I still fail to see how. It costs them more money for something that would be more economical to tackle in another way.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
Emperor
all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 02:23
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#82 Report this post to a moderator
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Pesticide resistant crops make the farmers' life a lot easier, decreasing the costs of operating the land. Pretty simple stuff there.

quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Me? I'm just hanging around in the vain hope that someone would answer VJ's points with something other than handwaving.


Any points in particular? I think all his points have been answered, although the answers do tend to be in the realm of opinion, for which I'm sure all those who disagree with your own opinions apologise unreservedly for having.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by VJ
The were some basis for being against GM foods years back, when we didn't know if there were any negative consequences in consuming them.


Even that was pretty stupid - it's not really different from the hybrid stuff we've been doing since virtually the dawn of agriculture.

Last edited by Kuciwalker on 02-04-2004 at 10:10

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 10:02
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Did I say it would be a failure? When the government forbids milk producers from labeling their milk as BgH free because that implies there's something wrong with BgH you have to wonder. If it's not a problem, label it and let the American people decide. If you have to hide something from us, maybe it's not so great. I don't really like being experiemented on without my permission.

Anyway, haven't you wondered why there is so much growth in organic foods?


because PEOPLE ARE STUPID

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 10:06
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quote:
Originally posted by PeteH
The problem w/ cloned plants is the lack of diversity in defense mechanisms.


This has absoluting NOTHING to do with GM, and everything to do with the way agriculture has always worked since its invention. So stop whining.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 10:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Yes. You're splicing genes that cannot be found naturally in these species into them.


Which is what happens when you cross-pollinate two species... which has been done for centuries

Which is effectively what happens when you take a cutting from one plant and insert it into the stem of another species... which has been done for centuries

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 11:10
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skywalker .

I agree with your last 4 posts. We've been GMing since agriculture has existed.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 11:51
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in general I am fine with GM foods and hormones and all that other stuff

I am not fine with corporations though

so roughly ~50% of my food intake is organic

JKOnM iller

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 11:54
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in actuality

what I dislike the most is hormones given to animals (for the dairy since I am a vegeterrian)

and all the **** that they put on plants

Jon Miller

Sandman is offline Sandman
Prince
Sinister Penguin
Aug 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 02-04-2004 17:37
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Genetic modification is totally different from selective breeding. Selective breeding is a semi-random process that relies on random mutations and the interbreeding of closely related species. Genetic engineering involves adding, removing or replacing DNA in a controlled process under laboratory conditions. There is no limit to what DNA can be introduced, unlike selective breeding. Fish DNA can be spliced into strawberries, human DNA can be spliced into sheep. You cannot do that with selective breeding.

The argument that 'we've been doing it for thousands of years' is simply wrong.

 
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