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Frankychan
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In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
time: 19:35
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quote:
Originally posted by joncha
 As much as I agree with the spirit in which this was posted...
Religion, in Marx's over-quoted words, is more than just the "opium of the masses." It is also the "sigh of the oppressed" and the "heart of a heartless world."
Unless and until we solve the problems of class society, religion will be around because it fills a definite, necessary roll. It is, ultimately, the product of despair and of hope against despairing.
A much better position, IMO, is to side with religion when it represents the desparate hope of the oppressed, and against it when it is used by the powers-that-be as drug to control the masses.
Of course, that makes for a less fun OT thread.  |
 Religion, like almost anything else, is dangerous in the wrong hands.
Religious Fundamentalism in any form is a cancer that should be removed.
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Kaak
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I know it's hard to fathom, but there are a great deal of religious people who aren't extremists/fundamentalists. I know that is quite detrimental to most of the posts supporting the topic, but true none the less.
People who blame religion for the Crusades, witch hunts, etc, are either terribly daft, or simply blind. The same factors were behind those acts as all other atrocities in history: greed, ignorance, pride, hate, and lust for power.
To say that humanity has not benifited from religion would be a hard claim to fortify.
to wage war against an ideologies which promote peace and harmony with oneself and others is more propogation of hate that will lead to further suffering of the masses.
On a side note, it always seems to be the people with the largest egos and the greatest lust for power (or the appearance of importance) that crusade for agendas against ideologies that support a higher power. Such people seem to have a difficult time with the prospect that some things are beyond their ability to comprehend or overtake.
anyway, why waste time crying for a fall of religion when you could be aiming for a greater good, like eliminating hate?
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gamenaught
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quote:
You fool! Don't you anti-religionists know that if we simply combined forces, we could take over the WORLD? |
But you can't combine forces because you're too busy killing each other. Christians verus Muslims versus Jews versus...
Plus, what kind of world would it be? Compare the most religious countries of the world with the more secular.
I believe in live and let live but this flying airliners into skyscrapers, blowing up bus loads of innocents, denial of equal rights, intrusion into politics, etc. is getting real old real fast. Take, for instance, today's top story:
quote:
Supporters of an anti-American Shiite Muslim cleric rioted in Baghdad and four other Iraqi cities, sparking fighting that killed at least 50 Iraqis, eight U.S. troops and a Salvadoran soldier |
Associated Press
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gamenaught
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quote:
I believe in live and let live but this flying airliners into skyscrapers, blowing up bus loads of innocents, denial of equal rights, intrusion into politics, etc. is getting real old real fast. |
..and, almost forgot, this week's other big story: stoning children.
quote:
Bingham pounded his fist in his hand as he recounted Joshua's killing: "He got strike after strike after strike on his head to the point that his brains were coming out of his head like liquid.'' |
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gamenaught
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quote:
Hint- if you're going by homicide rates, avoid using the USA as an example of a secular country. |
American has a secular government but 90% of its people are Christian. America is a relatively religious country so America is an excellent example. And what parts of the country lead the nation in crime: the Bible Belt.
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gamenaught
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quote:
Going by that definition, are there any secular nations at all? |
Of course no nation is 100% religious or 100% secular but some are far more secular/religious than others.
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gamenaught
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quote:
The U.S. is a Christian nation masquerading as "secular". |
Yep. There is a whole lot of truth in that statement.
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Jamski
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lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
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The US is a fundamentalist state, with the emphasis on fundamentalist.
OMFG I'm so funny 
No seriously folks, if God was crack cocaine, they'd put all the priests in jail, y'know what I mean?
As for that Jesus - it wouldn't be so bad if the christian types actually did one thing that he said - I'm not asking for much, just one thing - I mean if BUSH is a christian, and the USA is christian, why didn't they turn the other cheek after 11/9/2001 and say,
"Hey, let's do like that Jesus dude said and love our enemy"
After which they would give a big party for Osama bin Laden to express their love for him. I'm imagining quite a love-in here 
Ok, or those Muslims... they need to get over it. We really just don't care, ok? You're sending suicide bombers because God is Peace? Ok... whatever... but can you stop now, please, because we're not sure what your point is.
Bhuddists are good. I can dig that because its not a relegion, just a philosophy. Do good stuff - get reborn as a better person - its nice self improvement, and they don't blow you up / complain about being repressed / knock on the door and try and convert you. They're ideal, they just sit there in the mountains and think stuff and milk yaks and drink tea. I can really dig that, so long as they don't make a relegion out of it.
So who's left? Jews? They're just trouble makers too. "Oh, we're the chosen people of God!" Riiiiiight, that's why he dumped on you for 4,000 years, then is it? Unless it was just a huge masterplan to get sympathy and American dollars to spend on rockets to kill Arabs "Ha! I've been waiting 4,000 years to blow you up, Ahmed!"
What's left... umm... athiests - they suck too. Always telling everyone the obvious, or boring us to tears with the reasons why they're an athiest. I mean, come on! I don't go around telling you that I can breathe or something dull like that....
So... my conclusion... ummm... make God illegal, except in Utah, and send all the religious guys there where Tass will preach a seminar every week on mutal understanding and love.
Yeah.
-Jam
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Shogun Gunner
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Potomac Falls, Virginia
Oct 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
The US is a fundamentalist state, with the emphasis on fundamentalist.
No seriously folks, if God was crack cocaine, they'd put all the priests in jail, y'know what I mean?
Ok, or those Muslims... they need to get over it. We really just don't care, ok? You're sending suicide bombers because God is Peace? Ok... whatever... but can you stop now, please, because we're not sure what your point is.
They're ideal, they just sit there in the mountains and think stuff and milk yaks and drink tea. I can really dig that, so long as they don't make a relegion out of it.
"Ha! I've been waiting 4,000 years to blow you up, Ahmed!"
What's left... umm... athiests - they suck too. Always telling everyone the obvious, or boring us to tears with the reasons why they're an athiest. I mean, come on! I don't go around telling you that I can breathe or something dull like that....
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Funniest post in the thread by far.
It reads like the transcript of a stand up comic's show!!! 
Plenty of choice quotes for the signature block!
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Urban Ranger
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Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
People who blame religion for the Crusades, witch hunts, etc, are either terribly daft, or simply blind. The same factors were behind those acts as all other atrocities in history: greed, ignorance, pride, hate, and lust for power. |
How are you going to explain the Crusades, the Inqusition, and witch hunts without Christianity?
quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
To say that humanity has not benifited from religion would be a hard claim to fortify. |
How did the world benefit from Judeo-Christianity and Islam?
quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
to wage war against an ideologies which promote peace and harmony with oneself and others is more propogation of hate that will lead to further suffering of the masses. |
You can have the ethics without the superstition and the dogma.
quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
On a side note, it always seems to be the people with the largest egos and the greatest lust for power (or the appearance of importance) that crusade for agendas against ideologies that support a higher power. |
That is strange, Mr George W Bush asserts to be a Christian himself.
quote:
Originally posted by Kaak
anyway, why waste time crying for a fall of religion when you could be aiming for a greater good, like eliminating hate? |
Don't tell me there wouldn't be a lot less hate without the Protestants and Catholics going at each other with tongs and hammer.
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The Mad Viking
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of the Great White North
Feb 2000
time: 05:35
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Aggie:
I sometimes feel the same way.
Here are a couple of things to temper your rant.
1.
What you see in the media, as you are well aware, is not religion. It is hype, it is the most extreme and provocative views, selected by the media to sell, and carefully packaged to appear representative.
Most religious people are tolerant.
I think it is unfair to confuse missionary evangelicism with religion.
2.
This one I would like your views on.
We live in a time of moral relativism. I have lived most of my 43 years as a fervent supporter of individual freedom. Yet now, I begin to doubt.
Society has always had rules for individual behaviour that were designed both to strengthen society and to protect individuals within it. (Yes, and to support and protect the ruling classes.)
Is it good for individuals or society to have thousands of teenagers employed in the pornography business?
Is it good for individuals or society to have casinos all over the place, where people go to spend money they can't afford to lose while neglecting their families?
Is their really a logic to lotteries, where the bottom third of our economic bracket give half their disposable income back to the government, and once in a blue moon, for no rational reason, one of them becomes incredibly wealthy. (Although this only temporarily solves one of their problems, while giving them several more...)
Look at the ethics of reality tv. All we see is Machiavelli.
So- as a society - are we fit to govern ourselves? Without some higher authority, will our behaviour continue to sink into the cesspit of hedonism and unfettered self-interest?
In places where religion is strong, is society not also strong?
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05-04-2004 12:27
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