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Agathon
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Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:35
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When I was small (not just in height, don't laugh), religion was definitely on the way out. The consensus was that empiricism was in and that anything based on faith or scripture was simply discredited superstition that ought to play no role in public life. That no longer seems to be the case.
I myself can't see much good coming from religion. Of course it may help some people through periods of hardship or grief, but other than that I think the consequences are generally negative. But then again what else would one expect from a belief system rooted in self deception and sexual neurosis.
Generally, I've tended to be a live and let live person where religion is concerned. I don't believe myself and I think that most people who do are crazy (but definitely not all), but I rarely argue with people about it (on here is about my limit).
But I've had enough. The popularity of Mel Gibson's Jesus porn flick and the sanctimonious crap we have to put up with from clearly insane individuals (like Jerry Falwell) is too much, as is the deference shown to these lunatics by the media.
Religious people cannot live in a liberal-democratic society since the essence of religious commandments is that they trump any secular laws. Whether he knows it or not, every religious man is at war with liberal democracy. Our tolerance has led to empowering a bunch of people who hope to overturn that tolerance in favour of a system in which such criminals as masturbators receive public floggings and homosexuals are sent for "re-assignment" (before anyone jumps on the "ditto commies" bandwagon, I would argue that liberal democracy and communism do not embody any real difference in values - both are secular for a start, and both believe in people empowerment).
Like many people, I had hoped that an open, tolerant society would lead to the extinction of religion, but that has proved a false hope as the religious people seem to be the only ones who care enough to make trouble and the rest of us sit around not paying any attention while sexual and moral freedoms are attacked and the open society is threatened.
So, I reckon it's time that the irreligious people got mean. Tolerance does not work. In any time in any place where religion is brought into public view, there should be one of us there, to expose it as the spoon-bending mumbo-jumbo that it is.
So who else wants to take a solemn vow of loudness when it comes to putting down religion? I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!!! People who believe in fairies should not be listened to.
(obviously an ill-tempered rant, but you get the idea) 
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joncha
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North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:35
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 As much as I agree with the spirit in which this was posted...
Religion, in Marx's over-quoted words, is more than just the "opium of the masses." It is also the "sigh of the oppressed" and the "heart of a heartless world."
Unless and until we solve the problems of class society, religion will be around because it fills a definite, necessary roll. It is, ultimately, the product of despair and of hope against despairing.
A much better position, IMO, is to side with religion when it represents the desparate hope of the oppressed, and against it when it is used by the powers-that-be as drug to control the masses.
Of course, that makes for a less fun OT thread.
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05-04-2004 06:41
to this thread.
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