05-04-2004 20:43									#1
	Next ACDG: Boost weaker factions? - The Poll! Suffering from ads?

Here is a poll elaborating on the discussion started here. I've put a few options to the vote:

1> Don't boost any faction! If you consider a faction too weak, then don't join it, silly!
2> Give some *slight* advantages to certain weak factions.
3> Give the weakest factions a better starting position (eg an extra rocky mineral bonus), the exact bonus to be determined by a CMN through playtesting.
4> Give the weakest factions some changes to their faction characteristics (eg a SE bonus or smaller SE penalty...).
5> Some combination of a better starting position and edited characteristics! Let's give every faction a fair chance!
6> Throw bananas at the weaker factions!

	05-04-2004 20:54									#2
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Don't boost any faction The god that made SMAC/X balanced everyone very nicely (possibly except the aliens)

If I had two votes, then I'd vote "Only boost with extra nice starting terrain"

-Jam

	05-04-2004 21:03									#3
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Voted for a slight boost. But nothing more then an extra ability or so.

eg. military ability for Spartans, fanatic defense for Believers.

	05-04-2004 21:05									#4
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I also voted for not boosting any factions. Even a small boost in the early game can turn into a real advantage later on, as the early game is so crucial. In order to avoid overcompensations, all boosts should be carefully playtested. All in all, I just think it would be better not to boost any factions at all. In my ideal world, every human faction would have a very similar starting position.

	05-04-2004 21:58									#5
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I voted no boost also. I agree that if we are talking about human teams, slight boost could become a huge advantage easily. If we are talking about AIs then it may be a different story.

	05-04-2004 23:02									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Minute Mirage I also voted for not boosting any factions. Even a small boost in the early game can turn into a real advantage later on, as the early game is so crucial.

quote: Originally posted by HongHu I voted no boost also. I agree that if we are talking about human teams, slight boost could become a huge advantage easily.

Actually the reasons why you vote against boosting can be turned around to justify boosting. If you already agree that a small boost in the early game can turn into a real advantage later, then you must surely agree that the large advantage of about all factions of having +2 Industry & +1 Economy bonus compared to the Spartans and Cult will certainly lead to a *huge* advantage later on. Correct?

	05-04-2004 23:12									#7
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Boost starting position.

	06-04-2004 00:28									#8
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Actually Maniac, if you argue that all factions MUST take Wealth, then that +2 Ind and +1 Econ is up against +4 Morale for the Spartans. That's a bonus of +50% to attack and defense.

-Jam

	06-04-2004 00:47									#9
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Give better starting positions, but other than that...don't mess with the SE and factional bonuses. Those are what make the faction unique and tinkering with them (IMHO) degrades the faction.

	06-04-2004 01:26									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Actually Maniac, if you argue that all factions MUST take Wealth, then that +2 Ind and +1 Econ is up against +4 Morale for the Spartans. That's a bonus of +50% to attack and defense.

+37.5%. But opposed to that, all your units costs +20%. But besides your units, all facilities also cost +20%, which has a cumulative negative effect on economic development. So to give a stereotypical example of to what this leads: 5 Spartan commando missile rovers fighting against 10 UoP disciplined Shard fusion-reactor rovers. Extra morale won't help much there.

	06-04-2004 01:37									#11
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Yes, except the Uni got flattened in turn 2120

-Jam

	06-04-2004 01:39									#12
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Will we be playing on a tiny map, with all factions on the same continent?

	06-04-2004 01:40									#13
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Talking about a challenge...

	06-04-2004 03:12									#14
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Ok Maniac, point taken, you think the Spartans are crap.

I think they're actually quite good and I'm prepared to play anyone with the Spartans to prove so.

-Jam

	06-04-2004 03:37									#15
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You mean you'll play as the Spartans in a next ACDG, or do you mean in some PBEM?

	06-04-2004 03:52									#16
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Either/or

-Jam

	06-04-2004 05:40									#17
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Other - tech advantages. Although changed SE characteristics sounds good too. I don't think start position makes THAT much of a difference in a game where you can customise terrain so heavily.

	06-04-2004 22:08									#18
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quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Other - tech advantages. Although changed SE characteristics sounds good too. I don't think start position makes THAT much of a difference in a game where you can customise terrain so heavily.

You would be surprised what a mineral bonus on a rocky square or nutrient bonus in radius of the first base can do for the whole faction - it will give turn advantage that is very important.

	07-04-2004 06:39									#19
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All the same, by giving a faction or two a tech that will let them use their abilities better, say CentEmp to the Cult so they can build worms straight away, or The FM tech to Morgan so he can power through the ECs early one sounds like a great turn advantage to me.

	07-04-2004 22:39									#20
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Too great advantage for me.

	08-04-2004 06:38									#21
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I think the problem with tech bonuses is that they can be traded (or stolen) meaning that giving it to a single faction in order to boost them may just result in boosting everyone.

In reference to obstructor's comments above, does Morgan need any advantage at all?

	08-04-2004 13:52									#22
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Well if he is surrounded by factions on the same continent...

	08-04-2004 21:09									#23
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Give em lots of banana's that will help

	08-04-2004 22:09									#24
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quote: Well if he is surrounded by factions on the same continent...

He can get to Probe Teams first, and has the cash to use them early game

-Jam

	08-04-2004 22:15									#25
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But not all...

	08-04-2004 23:28									#26
	Remove this text

When a faction has 2-3 bases and you mind control one of them, then you just won the game.

-Jam

	09-04-2004 01:18									#27
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Mind controlling Morgan would cause others to team up against him.

	09-04-2004 09:33									#28
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quote: Originally posted by obstructor Well if he is surrounded by factions on the same continent...

That's fairly bad for anyone who isn't going to be fully offensive from turn one, isn't it?

	09-04-2004 12:54									#29
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Yes, but you can pact with them and cooperate.

	12-04-2004 20:07									#30
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Ok, this poll seems to show a pretty clear trend towards either NO boost, or just better starting positions. We can just leave this to a smart CMN to give the AI whatever help he/she thinks they need, an extra pod, or a little patch of Monsoon Jungle, whatever...

Yes?

-Jam