07-04-2004 07:02									#91
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Redneck Rampage had plenty of charm too.

	07-04-2004 07:03									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Wolfenstein started it all! Show some respect.

There was recently a thread entitled "Popular games that you have absolutely zero respect for" in the Other Games forum. Wolfenstein was one of the first to come to mind.

	07-04-2004 07:06									#93
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Closet Nazi, eh?

	07-04-2004 07:12									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Closet Nazi, eh?

No, I'm just a discerning gamer. It takes more than just gore and boring cliches to impress me.

	07-04-2004 07:25									#95
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Oh hi Osweld.

	07-04-2004 07:40									#96
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Hello dear.

	07-04-2004 07:52									#97
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Anyone who doesn't like Wolfenstein is obviously a...oh. Verto made the joke.

	07-04-2004 08:18									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Asher +1 for Half-Life.

Asher you are my hero.

	07-04-2004 10:02									#99
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quote: Mario is the Christ of Video gaming!

So thta means that if half life wins, then it is the anti-christ?

	07-04-2004 10:04									#100
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quote: How can anything compare to the Nazi-killing environment of Wolfenstein?

The Nazi part was what made it so classic. DOOM is just for the heavy metal holdovers, who can admit that is time to put the records away, and stop banging their heads.

	07-04-2004 10:08									#101
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd No, I'm just a discerning gamer. It takes more than just gore and boring cliches to impress me.

How about being the first game of one of the most popular gaming genres?

Wolfenstein was remarkably innovative.

I'm also not sure which cliches you meant, seeing as Wolfenstein was the first...

	07-04-2004 10:12									#102
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quote: I think Civ3 did better than Civ2 would have done.

Heresy.

	07-04-2004 16:43									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Asher How about being the first game of one of the most popular gaming genres?

Well, I'm not big on FPS's in the first place, so doesn't mean much to me.

quote: I'm also not sure which cliches you meant, seeing as Wolfenstein was the first...

The whole nazi thing. You just run around and kill nazis, that's it. Pretty shallow game.

	07-04-2004 17:33									#104
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd The whole nazi thing. You just run around and kill nazis, that's it. Pretty shallow game.

Shallow?

	07-04-2004 18:08									#105
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Funny seeing someone who backs SMB3 calling something else a shallow game .

	07-04-2004 18:11									#106
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quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear So thta means that if half life wins, then it is the anti-christ?

Yup.

I can;t believe so many posters here are doing the bididng of the whore of babylon....sinners!

	07-04-2004 19:10									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Funny seeing someone who backs SMB3 calling something else a shallow game .

SMB3 had creativity and variety, Wolfenstein did not.

	07-04-2004 19:26									#108
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Obviously you played a different Wolfenstein .

	07-04-2004 19:35									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Obviously you played a different Wolfenstein .

I played the one where you run around in maze-like levels and endlessly kill nazis.

Which one did you play?

	07-04-2004 19:51									#110
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Seeing as something like Wolfenstein had never been done before, and "SMB3" was a third sequel to a tried-and-true formula, I would not argue that SMB3 was more creative...

	07-04-2004 19:53									#111
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quote: I played the one where you run around in maze-like levels and endlessly kill nazis. Which one did you play?

Sounds like more creativity and variety than the game where you simply jumped around to try to get to the end of a level (one big jumping puzzle game?).

	07-04-2004 19:57									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Sounds like more creativity and variety than the game where you simply jumped around to try to get to the end of a level (one big jumping puzzle game?).

Please....

Mario is far more imaginative than Wolfentein. Wolfenstein is fun, and the general gameplay was new and innovative-but what the game was about? Nope.

So-while Mario was using an tried and true medium, it was great imagination involved and took this old medium to it's limits.

Wolfenstein is a great game becuase it brought forth a new medium, even if the content was not new.

	07-04-2004 19:59									#113
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I agree that Mario was more imaginative, but not as creative.

Wolfenstein was creative because of all of the milestones of firsts it had, while Mario was imaginative because magic mushrooms made you bigger. Then again, that, too, is rather cliched and tired from the previous games.

	07-04-2004 20:05									#114
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Mario three was not just an extension of the previous 2 games.

In fact, there were signifcant differences.

One of them was the fact there was a map, and players had a certain freedom in choosing their path to victory-this was new to the series and is a HUGE change. Also, all the games and special levels was new to the system. New powers was also new to the system and more than just cosmetic changes.

	07-04-2004 20:06									#115
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quote: Mario was imaginative because magic mushrooms made you bigger.

I never would have suspected the Japanese as being fans of Jefferson Airplane.

	07-04-2004 20:20									#116
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quote: Mario is far more imaginative than Wolfentein. Wolfenstein is fun, and the general gameplay was new and innovative-but what the game was about? Nope.

Being innovative doesn't mean you are imaginative? I mean this was an entirely new game! This wasn't a combining of genres or anything like that, this was innovation, which came into being because of the great imagination of id.

Hell, if you want some more imagination look at Level 3's boss (ie, Hitler).

	07-04-2004 20:23									#117
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NO, innovative and imaginative are not the same thing. Hence, 2 different words. Pong was innovative-not imaginative.

Wolfenstein was more innovative than SMB3, though it is false to say SMB3 was not innovative.

SMB3 was more imaginative than Wolfenstein.

	07-04-2004 20:24									#118
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quote: NO, innovative and imaginative are not the same thing. Hence, 2 different words. Pong was innovative-not imaginative.

But they go together. You need to have some imagination in order to be innovative. Without imagination you get to make anything new.

	07-04-2004 20:26									#119
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quote: I agree that Mario was more imaginative, but not as creative.

It was a side-scrolling platform game, and many had been made before, yeah. But SMB3 put alot of twists into it and did new things with it. Like the map, for isntance, or the side-levels and items, or the creative twists to levels like the boot, or airships and tanks. Or how every map had a completely original theme to it, reflected in the designs of it's levels.

quote: This wasn't a combining of genres or anything like that

It's not like it was the first 3D/first person game, or the first shooter. They just put guns into 3D.

	07-04-2004 20:29									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui But they go together. You need to have some imagination in order to be innovative. Without imagination you get to make anything new.

Not technically true-if you have a tool and you are doing something, then you think-hmm, I think this would be better-and try it, it was..that is innovation. It is a strech to call it imagination (unless you think every single new thought to be imagination).


As I said: In innovation
Wolfie>SMB3

IN imagination
Wolfie < SMB3