06-04-2004 21:56									#31
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What right wing morons were whinging about fantasy casualty figures?

Baghdad could have been tough, but even in the worst case I would have been surprised if US KIA got over 3,000.

	06-04-2004 21:58									#32
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MtG,

Please understand Aggies political frame of reference.

	06-04-2004 21:59									#33
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quote: It surveyed 3,000 people, so I trust it. Done by the BBC and other western press. See page 15. http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bs..._iraqsurvey.pdf Saddam Hussein outpolls Sadr by 6:1.

It doesn't mention how the poll was taken (I imagine that it's easier to get richer coalition-friendly folks to respond than people in the slums who'd support Sadr). I also wonder about the geographic distribution. I notice that Baghdad has nearly a third (27.6%) and Ninewa has 10.6%. I only recognize a handful of the rest, but they all have to be in the South in order for the religious distribution to be representative (which I doubt's the case).

Besides, again demonstratably false. If 4.7% support Sistani, that amounts to little over a million supporters. How could he rally 400,000 (nearly half supposedly of his supporters) to the streets between Basra and Baghdad at the same time, at his whim if he were such an unpopular figure? Why are the coalition so afraid of him to the point of drastically changing their agenda, if he's so irrelevant?

	06-04-2004 22:06									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe MtG, Please understand Aggies political frame of reference.

Yeah, I figure Teddy Kennedy is a neo-con in the Aggieverse, but IIRC, the morons (mostly UN bleeding heart types and Euros) were even further left of Teddy.

	06-04-2004 22:07									#35
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I wonder if Sadr would be more dangerous alive than dead? If US would kill or capture him it could upset more of the shi’its and make him a martyr, something that would make the situation worse. As I recall Sadr is hiding in a mosqe build by the shi’it founder Ali. Now would USA attack the building and damage or destroy parts of it I believe that would make more Shi’its to attack the invading force...

quote: It surveyed 3,000 people, so I trust it. Done by the BBC and other western press. See page 15. http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/bs..._iraqsurvey.pdf Saddam Hussein outpolls Sadr by 6:1.

I wonder how and who of the Iraqis they interviewed? And how likely they are to tell the thruth when people from the same nation as the invaders ask the questions?

	06-04-2004 22:08									#36
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quote: Originally posted by MOBIUS Well frankly he is no worse than a bunch of dictatorships around the world that the US is in bed with - when are we going to invade them then, huh?

Knock on wood...

Oh, BTW, if Iraqis start pummeling "coalition" forces, it's not a start of a civil war. If Iraqis start fighting each other, then it's a civil war. For now, they share a common enemy...

	06-04-2004 22:10									#37
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Ramo, you don't understand.

Sadr opposes the US.

Therefore, by definition, he is a "Radical Muslim Cleric."

Therefore, he can only be supported by and extreme fringe.

I am waiting for "...with links to Al-Qaeda".

.

Seriously, they probably conducted the poll by telephone. Of maybe they asked the people they invited to the Assembly...

	06-04-2004 22:14									#38
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat What right wing morons were whinging about fantasy casualty figures? Baghdad could have been tough, but even in the worst case I would have been surprised if US KIA got over 3,000.

I was talking about the hordes of military "experts" on television before the war. They said, sensibly in my view, that casualty rates would vary greatly depending on what kind of resistance the Iraqis put up. There's nothing strange or moronic about that - it's common sense.

And Iraqi casualties would have been far worse had massive street fighting started in Baghdad.

Still 3000 is a lot.

	06-04-2004 22:17									#39
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quote: Juan Cole doesn't know ****

http://www.juancole.com/

I think Juan Cole knows a lot. You may not agree with what he is saying, but I think he knows more than both you and me!

	06-04-2004 22:19									#40
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Yeah, I figure Teddy Kennedy is a neo-con in the Aggieverse, but IIRC, the morons (mostly UN bleeding heart types and Euros) were even further left of Teddy.

I take it you are referring to the people who don't mask their personal inadequacies by having a hard on for the military. Moreover a military made up of trigger-happy hicks who will shoot at anything that moves.

That's a badge of honour in my book.

Anyway, this is Bremer's fault. He should have left the guy's stupid paper alone.

	06-04-2004 22:22									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I take it you are referring to the people who don't mask their personal inadequacies by having a hard on for the military. Moreover a military made up of trigger-happy hicks who will shoot at anything that moves.

Hey, it don't have to move to be a threat. Ever heard of "recon by fire?"

	06-04-2004 22:32									#42
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Hey, it don't have to move to be a threat. Ever heard of "recon by fire?"

On a more serious note, why is it that US troops have that reputation? I've spoken with veterans of WWII, Korea, Vietnam and GWI and they all say they were sometimes more worried about you guys than the opposition.


Anyway, compared to Sadr, Saddam looks like a reasonable dude.

	06-04-2004 22:41									#43
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Sadr doesn't have wide spread support amoung the Shi'a. Sistani does. Sadr is trying to portray himself as the great leader against the infedels hoping this will give him the leading role.

BTW Fallujah is a Sunni city and the fighting there has nothing to do with the Shi'a. The fighting in Sadr City (north-east Baghdad) does. If sadr is killed or arrested then I suspect we will see a week or two of violence followed by a tailing off period.

	06-04-2004 22:42									#44
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Is this the start of civil war? no.

A widening of the armed resistance to occupation? yes.

Civil war implies Shi'ites vs. Sunnis vs. Kurds (or 2 out of 3). This is Shi'ites and Sunnis vs. the occupation authorities.

Yes, it is a minority group among the Shi'ite population, but not an insignificant one by any means. And by acting "standing up" to America, Sadr will draw many more Shi'ites to him.

	06-04-2004 22:55									#45
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Keep in mind "wounded" can range from very minor wounds with the soldier back at his unit in a day to major combat wounds requiring evacuation.

And at the other end of the spectrum there is injuries beyond repair, multiple amputations, and vegetable status.

	06-04-2004 23:04									#46
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A story in Salon a while back noted that a number of Sistani's followers are itching to fight the Americans as well, if only he'd okay it. The odd thing is, they aren't anti-American. They want to fight the Americans to get them to pay attention to their problems.

	06-04-2004 23:05									#47
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Anyway, according to the news. Sadr controls parts of Najaf; there is intense fighting in Fallujah and fighting in Baghdad and Nasiriyah.

	07-04-2004 00:36									#48
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Who would you put in a league with Saddam? If you have any special requests, we can take them down in order for you, if you'd like.

Islam Karimov, dictator of Uzbekistan for 15 years springs immediately to mind.

Then there's Gadaffi, apparently we're all going to forget all his terrorist attacks and call him our friend - how nice!

For starters...

	07-04-2004 00:49									#49
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There is a report about heavy fighting and coalition casualties in Ramadi.

	07-04-2004 01:02									#50
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According to Wires as much as 60 US troops may be dead at firefight in Ramadi. There is some speculation if they are sadyr's army or not. Witnesses said they were dressed as Fedayeen paramilitary!

	07-04-2004 01:28									#51
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Britain is now sending 4.500 extra troops from 1st Mechanized Brigade to Iraq. Officially it is to replace troops already there, but the 'rotation' will take 'a month'.

	07-04-2004 01:29									#52
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updated: 60 casualties (not dead). And the suspected fedayeen insurgents are lobbing mortars and gernades on the compound gunfire heard all through the night.

Witnesses report an intense close range fight


They still dont know who is attacking at Ar Ramadi. News is saying Shia's & witnesses who have seen the bodies say there are dressed like the Fedayeen.

	07-04-2004 01:29									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Britain is now sending 4.500 extra troops from 1st Mechanized Brigade to Iraq. Officially it is to replace troops already there, but the 'rotation' will take 'a month'.

Why is "month" in quotations?

	07-04-2004 01:33									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Kucinich Why is "month" in quotations?

Because I am unsure, that what they tell is factual?

	07-04-2004 01:40									#55
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Hey, it don't have to move to be a threat. Ever heard of "recon by fire?"

A sure way to kill your buddy sooner or later

	07-04-2004 01:42									#56
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I hear that Ken Burns is already working on a documentary...

	07-04-2004 01:48									#57
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I think we need to drastically increase the number of troops in Iraq. Then, implement a major military operation to crush all insurgents.

	07-04-2004 01:56									#58
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quote: Originally posted by The diplomat I think we need to drastically increase the number of troops in Iraq. Then, implement a major military operation to crush all insurgents.

I've read that the american army units in Iraq are already hardpressed when it comes to troops. Some are being sent to Iraq despite bad health.

Still there are, I think, ten divisions which have not been deployed yet.

	07-04-2004 02:19									#59
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Holy ****!

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/...1130577,00.html

quote: A Pentagon source has said at least 130 US troops have been killed in fierce fighting in Iraq. The reports have not been confirmed.

	07-04-2004 02:29									#60
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They say twelve, but that seems to be just in Ramadi