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Patashu is offline Patashu
Warlord
The mechanical dragon
Feb 2002
time: 15:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 11:34
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Is it wrong... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

...To always place bases far enough apart to always(excluding when enemy units pop up) have all 20 tiles available to work on? That's what I always do, I haven't tried ICS or whatever it is yet.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 11:51 Visit Dis's homepage!
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Increase the size of your Attachments

nothing is wrong in this game

I don't always adhere to having 20 tiles available to every city. For me it depends on resource placement. I try to include all river and resource squares into my city radius.

Frankychan is offline Frankychan
King
In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
time: 19:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 11:55 Visit Frankychan's homepage!
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Nah, I don't think so.

Some ppl like to crowd their cities all together, others like 'em far apart.

I like to do both. Keep a cluster fairly close together, then spread them thinly, then have another cluster together. This way, it kinda acts like the US. Populace West Coast, sparce population inbetween, Populace East Coast.

That way, if the s*** hits the fan (ie Planet Buster attack), at least a sizeable number of cities remain and my industry doesn't experience a total collapse.

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
King
A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 11:57
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I normally place my cities/bases so the full 20 tiles can be worked by that city/base only. But after spending some time on this forum, I've been convinced to start experimenting with Silkandar's spacing method.

Patashu is offline Patashu
Warlord
The mechanical dragon
Feb 2002
time: 15:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 11:59
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If I do start ICSing, which of these is more efficient, or are they equally efficient?

x-x-x
-----
-x-x-
-----
x-x-x

or

x-x-x
-----
x-x-x
-----
x-x-x

Trithemius is offline Trithemius
Prince
Canberra, Australia
May 2003
time: 14:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 12:54
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Re: Is it wrong... Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Patashu
...To always place bases far enough apart to always(excluding when enemy units pop up) have all 20 tiles available to work on? That's what I always do, I haven't tried ICS or whatever it is yet.


That's what I do as well - does anyone have a handy link to an explanation of ICS? I seem to be terminologically-deprived.

Patashu is offline Patashu
Warlord
The mechanical dragon
Feb 2002
time: 15:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 12:55
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Suffering from ads?

Infinite City Sprawl, or something. It's where you build cities really close together.

Verrucosus is offline Verrucosus
Chieftain

May 2001
time: 06:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 15:46
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I'm one of those who prefer to minimize overlap. Lal, whom I tend to play these days, is probably more suitable for this than others. His talent bonus and increased base limits invite large-scale pop-booming, while his little efficiency problem, makes it attractive to cover territory with as few bases as possible in order to minimize bureaucracy drones. An additional benefit (to me) is that fewer bases mean less micromanagement in the late game.

Patashu, I believe that both patterns are equally efficient from an economic point of view, but that the first one might be better for facilitating reinforcements: There are 10 bases rather than 8 within three tiles of an interior base and, more importantly in this context, 6 bases rather than 5 within three tiles of a frontier base.

GeoModder is offline GeoModder
Emperor
The most erratic Overlord!
Jan 2004
time: 06:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 15:53
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The spacing is less important with seabases, even for quickly sending reinforcements. Cruiser Transports have enough movements to bring new defenders easily

Minute Mirage is offline Minute Mirage
Prince
Helsinki
Aug 2003
time: 07:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 17:24
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I don't place my bases more than 3 squares apart, unless there's a really good reason for it, like claiming more terrain from my neighbours. Even 3 squares seems like a long distance in the early game, when the colony pods could be doing something a lot more profitable than costing support, like being bases. I often prefer to have my first few bases only two squares apart, although this is of course very much dependant on the terrain. The early game is all about turn advantage, and getting new bases going as fast as possible is one of the best ways of gaining advantage.

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 17:28
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Increase the size of your Attachments

Tight spacing is probably going to win you more games, but the exact pattern isn't really important. You can mix and match, and its much more effient to work arou the fungus, rocky tiles and coastlines than to try and flatten/clear/raise to make the terrain fit your plan.

Untill HabDomes, you can only work 14 tiles maximum anyway, so forget about trying to find 20 tiles for each base.

-Jam

Patashu is offline Patashu
Warlord
The mechanical dragon
Feb 2002
time: 15:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 17:58
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Speaking of which...

Is there a base pattern that provides each base with approximately 14 tiles to work with?

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 18:45
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Hey Diss, I didn't know you played SMAC!


With Morgan, I spread my bases out even further than 21 squares, basically just so my territory area increases. This way I can build massive energy parks in all the territory not being used by my few cities and thus generate heaps of cash. Of course, I lack cities that produce things, but when I want to produce them I can buy them straight away.

Last edited by Skanky Burns on 08-04-2004 at 21:16

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 20:27
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#14 Report this post to a moderator
Got spare money?

With Morgan, your base sizes are limited anyway, so I push even closer together to a hard grid pattern, give each base 1 borehole (worked) and 2 farm/condesor/soil enrichers (crawlered) and make everyone else specialists. You can fight under FM that way with vast hordes of units too

Grab the Pathetic Virtues and only build Hab Complexes when you have a few nutsats up in the sky.

-Jam

Ouro_827 is offline Ouro_827
Prince
Alaska
Feb 2004
time: 20:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 21:40
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I didn't use to ever let overlap occur... now, I'm a little more giving... but no, its not wrong! I've won lots of games with it!

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 21:44
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Jam, did you mind posting a screenie of such a layout, with one press of "t" to get rid of the units in the way?

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 08-04-2004 21:59
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Well, just because I'm too lazy to install Photoshop...

B = base
o = Borehole
c = crawler on farm/cond/enricher

code:
BoBoBoBo cccccccc BoBoBoBo cccccccc BoBoBoBo cccccccc BoBoBoBo cccccccc


Its little units of

code:
Bo cc


The two crawlered tiles provide 12 nuts in total, with 2/3 from the base square gives 14/15 - enough for size 7. With satellites you can boost this to size 14, the Hab Complex limit, by adding another 14 nutrients (the maximum for a size 14 base, as it happens).

The Borehole provides enough minerals and some useful energy, while the main energy production comes from the huge number of these bases, all of which are filled with specialists, so there are NO problems with Drones or Efficency. Its sweet

Oh, its micromanagement hell though, and you should start by using some forests and farms in order to grow fast in the early game to plant all these dozens of bases.

-Jam

Patashu is offline Patashu
Warlord
The mechanical dragon
Feb 2002
time: 15:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 04:52
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You don't need photoshop to take screenshots.

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 05:05
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I need photoshop to turn BMP into JPG so I can link it into the thread though.

BMPs are more than the 5k allowed.

-Jam

Skanky Burns is offline Skanky Burns
Deity
Skanky Bastard Quartermaster
Aug 2001
time: 14:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 07:02
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I haven't played with enrichers before. I take it they are similar to energy parks, with the associated +1ing for each enricher next to a farm?

Commy is offline Commy
King
St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 07:22
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God, you guys are complicated. I must really suck. I am a very lazy and laid back person. I just build bases close together to maximize resources in natural landmarks, rivers and fertile areas, and areas with bonus resources. Sometimes I might have to cluster around two landmarks or really fertile lands, and have to deal with my empire being divided. I just want the good stuff, crowd bases on it, and fortify it. I know this is stupid, but I don't have time to deal with crawlers, so I never use them. Later in the game, I just build hybrid forests and make every square forest and magtube, then I don't have to deal with farms and enrichers and solar collectors and all that stuff. Using just forests is a lot easier and less time consuming, and it makes any place good, which allows me to expand into all the death zones, assuming they aren't colonized already.

Trithemius is offline Trithemius
Prince
Canberra, Australia
May 2003
time: 14:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 10:03
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#22 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
the Pathetic Virtues


:0
Blasphemy!

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 10:49
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#23 Report this post to a moderator
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quote:
Originally posted by Skanky Burns
I haven't played with enrichers before. I take it they are similar to energy parks, with the associated +1ing for each enricher next to a farm?


They act just the same as condensors as far increasing the nutrient output of the tile they inhabit, but they have no effect on moisture. IIRC condensors and enrichers add 50% to the nutrient total of the square, rounded down. So moist tiles give you one nutrient, rainy two, and farms add one. So adding a condensor on to a rainy tile with a farm (three base nutrients) give you another 1.5, which is rounded down to 1 for a total of four. Adding a soil enricher adds 2 nutrients (a bonus of half the base of four) for a total of six nutrients.

Frankychan is offline Frankychan
King
In the Kingdom of Hawaii (CPA Member)
Sep 2001
time: 19:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 14:01 Visit Frankychan's homepage!
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#24 Report this post to a moderator
Get a bigger avatar today!

I just had a bad experience with clustering my bases so close together. (see Planet Buster for details)

I just don't like having all my bases bunched up tightly where a single PB can erase my entire faction.

That's why I do the East Coast-West Coast development.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 14:18 Visit Dis's homepage!
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yes I had a bad experience the other day. I had 2 of my earliest (and hence cities with the most SP's) 2 squares apart. One fusion Planetbuster knocked out 7 SB's including Virtual World.

I reloaded. I had good reason mind you. There seems to be a bug that only happens with the Peacekeepers. A popup will come up saying they want to speak to you, but when you click OK the diplomacy window doesn't come up, just another screen saying they want to talk to you. This went on several turns, I guess they got pissed with me ignoring them and nuked my ass, but I wasn't ignoring them on purpose- the game was just buggy.

Barinthus is offline Barinthus
King
A Magical Moment...
Jan 2004
time: 21:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 20:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamski
I need photoshop to turn BMP into JPG so I can link it into the thread though.

BMPs are more than the 5k allowed.

-Jam


I'm sure you could email the BMP attachment to somebody else to convert for you. I'd be happy to do it if you want.

Or attach it to a post and somebody could download it, convert it, then post the JPG.

Snowflake is offline Snowflake
Princess
falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 21:36
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#27 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by Frankychan
I just had a bad experience with clustering my bases so close together. (see Planet Buster for details)

I just don't like having all my bases bunched up tightly where a single PB can erase my entire faction.

That's why I do the East Coast-West Coast development.


This does seem to be a concern for ICSing. Anybody has a good idea to counter the PBs for ICS?

Jamski is offline Jamski
Deity
lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
May 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 23:07
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#28 Report this post to a moderator
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ICS is the counter to PBs. Who cares if a few of my 250-300 crappy size 7 bases are destroyed?

-Jam

Snowflake is offline Snowflake
Princess
falling, once again
Apr 2003
time: 23:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 23:15
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#29 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

Ahhh. Good point.

Ouro_827 is offline Ouro_827
Prince
Alaska
Feb 2004
time: 20:35
  Old Post 09-04-2004 23:34
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Remove this text

For the first thing, you are legally insande to have 250-300 bases... but hopefully you're lying... and a good strategy is Defense Pods, which are a very late game tech, unforunatly, or Flechette Systems... which work very good with ICS tactics, because it makes it near impossible for a PB to make its way through your cities....

 
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