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Eli is offline Eli
Emperor
Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 16:52
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http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/m...nunu/index.html

quote:
Israeli nuclear spy released



ASHKELON, Israel (CNN) -- A defiant Mordechai Vanunu has calmly walked out prison after serving 18 years for spilling Israeli nuclear secrets to a British newspaper.

Sporting a dress shirt and tie and flashing V-for-victory signs alongside his brother Meir outside the Shikma Prison in the coastal city of Asheklon, the former nuclear technician said he had no regrets over his actions.

"To all those calling me traitor, I am saying I am proud, I am proud and happy to do what I did," he said

Vanunu was convicted of treason and espionage and spent most of his term in solitary confinement after providing the UK's The Sunday Times with information and pictures of Israel's secret nuclear reactor in the desert town of Dimona.

His revelations gave a clearer indication of Israel's secret nuclear program and led experts to conclude that Israel possessed the world's sixth-largest nuclear arsenal with around 100 atomic weapons.

Visibly angry, Vanunu said he suffered "cruel and barbaric treatment" at the hands of Israel's security services during his detention.

"I suffered here 18 years because I am a Christian ... if I was Jewish I wouldn't have this suffering and isolation."

The first stop for Vanunu, a 50-year-old Moroccan Jew who converted to Christianity, was to a nearby Anglican church where he was greeted by dozens of supporters.

Vanunu has said that all he wants to do after his release is leave Israel and try to resume his life.

But Israel -- where Vanunu is widely despised as a traitor -- is worried he could reveal more secrets and has banned him from leaving the country for 12 months.

Among other restrictions placed on Vanunu: he is unable to have a passport, can only have contacts with foreigners by permission for six months, is barred from foreign embassies, is not allowed to conduct media interviews and is forbidden to discuss nuclear secrets.

He also will be under close surveillance and must inform authorities of his movements.

However, Vanunu said he didn't have any more secrets to reveal and urged Israel open its reactor at Dimona to international inspections.

"The article was published; there are no more secrets. I am now ready to restart my life," he said.

"Israel doesn't need nuclear arms, especially now that all the Middles East is free from nuclear weapons."

Limited freedom
Israeli officials say the post-release restrictions on Vanunu could have been much tougher. They will be lifted if Vanunu toes the line.

"He promises to do as much damage and harm to Israel as he can," Israeli Justice Minister Joseph Lapid told CNN.

"He in this sense is a very, very unusual case where somebody spied on his country and betrayed his country and continues to do so and promises to do every harm that he can do to his country. So the sort of restrictions that we are imposing are very, very mild and moderate and limited."

Vanunu has also expressed concerns for his safety with some Israeli newspapers publishing the address in the Tel Aviv neighborhood of Jaffna where he was expected to live. It is now unclear where Vanunu will reside.

Vanunu became a technician in 1976 at Israel's Dimona Nuclear Reactor Center, where he signed a pledge to honor the Official Secrets Act.

He then secretly took photos inside the plant. At the same time, he was studying philosophy at Ben Gurion University, which many experts say contributed to a change in ideals.

By the time he was laid off from Dimona in 1985, Vanunu was feeling uncomfortable with Israel's nuclear secrets, his brother Meir said.

"He felt a duty -- according to what he said in the court, according to what he said in letters, and in my talks with him -- to speak about it to inform his own people and the international community," Meir Vanunu told CNN.

After moving to Australia, Vanunu met a Colombian journalist who encouraged him to tell his story.

Vanunu was in London for talks with The Sunday Times when he disappeared.

Shortly afterward, the newspaper published the photos of Dimona.

Two months later, while being taken into an Israeli court, Vanunu revealed how he was abducted and arrested by writing in black ink on his hand and showing it to photographers.

Nuclear 'ambiguity'
He had been lured by a female Mossad agent to Rome, where he was drugged and smuggled back to Israel.

"He was extremely angry about that, and angry about the fact that they committed a crime but prevented him from speaking about it," Meir Vanunu said. "I was prevented from talking about it myself."

Convicted of treason and espionage at a closed trial, Vanunu was imprisoned for 18 years, the first 11 years and six months spent in solitary confinement.

Vanunu's admissions to The Sunday Times embarrassed Israel.

Rather than openly declare itself as a nuclear power, Israel still maintains a "strategic ambiguity" over its nuclear weapons capability.

Israel's military is believed to be capable of deploying nuclear weapons via fighter-bombers, land and submarine-launched missiles.

"We let you guess whatever you wish. What we have promised, and we keep the promise: We will not be the first to introduce nuclear weapons in the Middle East," Lapid said.

"But you must know that we are a country threatened to be annihilated by our enemies. We are the only country in the world which is threatened by annihilation. And therefore we have the full right, not only the right, we have the obligation to do the utmost to keep our security in best shape."

CNN Correspondents Walt Rodgers and Paula Hancocks contributed to this report


Discuss.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 17:55
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Seems to fulfill the criteria for a traitor, what his problem? He's lucky they let him out at all

Kropotkin is offline Kropotkin
Emperor
of Ålidhem
Mar 1999
time: 06:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 18:43
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Of cource, if he had revealed the nuclear capabilities of any other country in the middle east, he would have been hailed as a hero by everyone.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 18:47
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Isn't he hailed as a hero by everyone, anyway? Just look at the other thread. I think that he broke the law, on purpose, so there is nothing wrong with jailing him.

Now, of course, some people will say that he contributed to World Peace. how exactly, I don't know. It's not like it wasn't known by the powers prior to that, anyway.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 18:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Azazel
Isn't he hailed as a hero by everyone, anyway? Just look at the other thread. I think that he broke the law, on purpose, so there is nothing wrong with jailing him.

Now, of course, some people will say that he contributed to World Peace. how exactly, I don't know. It's not like it wasn't known by the powers prior to that, anyway.


Who's he to decide what constitutes the 'greater good' anyway?

OneFootInTheGrave is offline OneFootInTheGrave
Prince
Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 18:54
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and who are we to say that either.
we all go by our gut feeling or beliefs.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 18:55
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Noone, but that's besides the point, anyway. People think they have the right to determine the common good all the time. We judge them by them being right, or wrong.

Az is offline Az
King
MACEDONIA - It's the name of the sovereign country to the north of Greece
Apr 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 18:58
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quote:
and who are we to say that either.
we all go by our gut feeling or beliefs.

Oh crap, it's the "everyone is right, and noone is right at the same time" bull again.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
and who are we to say that either.
we all go by our gut feeling or beliefs.


That lets bin Laden nicely off the hook!

East Street Trader is offline East Street Trader
Prince
London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 19:40
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Eleven and a half years in solitary!

Doesn't bear thinking about.

It is good that he has retained his defiance.

God show his mercy to all prisoners and captives.

Drogue is offline Drogue
Emperor
Omnipresent conscience
Oct 2002
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 20:00 Visit Drogue's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by laurentius (from MOBIUS' thread
Vanunu did the right thing.

Exactly. Admittedly I usually look for balance in issues, especially world politics, and so I wouldn't put it quite as MOBIUS did, but the jist would be similar. Israel has been exempt from criticism, from UN Security Council motions, and from international law, it seems, because of US support, and the US vetoing resolutions. Add to that the way they feel that anti-Semitism deserves special mention in anti-discrimination legislation, and it seems more and more unfair. I can understand the arguments for special legislation, they went through a lot in the past, even though I don't think it deserves special mention (when a point is being made not to specially mention any particular racism) but that doesn't make them exempt from criticism.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 20:02
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Vanunu did the right thing

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 20:59
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Why was he let out? Does Israel not have LWOP sentences?

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 21:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Vanunu did the right thing


He endangered his nation's security. How is that doing the right thing?

We all hate nukes, but nukes are neccessary for national security. Giving away nukes secrets that put your nation at greater risk, is not being a hero and it is not doing the right thing!

East Street Trader is offline East Street Trader
Prince
London, United Kingdom
Jun 2000
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 21:25
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Half a dozen countries have nuclear weapons. Hundreds don't.

If you were right to think that nuclear weapons are necessary to national security you would be able to demonstrate the insecurity of the hundreds.

Whereas you will, in fact, be unable to give even one illustration.

Security comes from getting on well with your neighbours - inside the country and outside it.

The diplomat is offline The diplomat
King
Terre Haute, IN USA
Sep 1999
time: 23:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by East Street Trader
Half a dozen countries have nuclear weapons. Hundreds don't.

If you were right to think that nuclear weapons are necessary to national security you would be able to demonstrate the insecurity of the hundreds.

Whereas you will, in fact, be unable to give even one illustration.

Security comes from getting on well with your neighbours - inside the country and outside it.


The Cold War.

Without nuclear weapons to act as a deterrent, the US and the Soviet would have probably gone to war, and started WW3. Most the world would have been decimated, and you and I might not be here to talk about it. Nukes kept the peace during the cold war.

In Israel's case, nukes are a formidable deterrent against another Arab invasion. Without nukes, Israel probably would have been attacked again by it's Arab neighbors.

Lazarus and the Gimp is offline Lazarus and the Gimp
King
Whale-raping abomination
Aug 2000
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 21:39
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Let him return to Britain, if he chooses. He'll be welcomed back.

Generalissimo is offline Generalissimo
Settler
Haifa
Jan 2003
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 22:24
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I have wondered what took you so long.
It’s kind of odd that most the vanunu supporters were of non-Israeli nationality.
It seemed almost artificial.

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 21-04-2004 23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Generalissimo
I have wondered what took you so long.
It’s kind of odd that most the vanunu supporters were of non-Israeli nationality.
It seemed almost artificial.


It's not the fact that he betrayed Israel, its the fact he betrayed his country!

Besides, if there's one counrty on this planet that should feel the need to have 'bigger and badder' weapons than it's neighbours it's Israel.

What does the 'Israeli in the street' think about a traitor being released?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 00:05 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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U.S. law requires the U.S. to cut off aid to any country possessing nukes that is not one of the declared nuclear powers in the NPT. Officially, the U.S. does not recognize the existence of Israeli nukes.

Israel doesn't need nukes. The last time they fought an Arab power in 1981 (Syria), they *****-slapped the heck out of them. No ME country is stupid enough to attack Israel, w/ or wo/ nukes.

Vanunu may be a traitor to Israel, but he is a hero to humanity. Nukes are the enemy of all mankind.

Generalissimo is offline Generalissimo
Settler
Haifa
Jan 2003
time: 05:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by reds4ever

What does the 'Israeli in the street' think about a traitor being released?


I think that va'anunu affair is one of the only issues the most Israelis agree on regardless to sex, social-economical level, etc.
Va’anunu is a traitor and should have treated like one (i.e. death by hanging)

reds4ever is offline reds4ever
Prince
of the Spion Kop
Mar 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 00:45
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Israel doesn't need nukes. The last time they fought an Arab power in 1981 (Syria), they *****-slapped the heck out of them. No ME country is stupid enough to attack Israel, w/ or wo/ nukes.


Having nukes would make SURE of that though! I know if I were an Israeli I'd sleep better at night if 'we' had them.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 01:09
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quote:
Eleven and a half years in solitary!

Doesn't bear thinking about.

It wasn't solitary, like it would be deisplayed in the movies: (ie, small dark cell, no human contact).

He had his own jailer. He had fresh air walks every day. He got bi-weekly visits by his family and monthly visits by clergy.

He also recieved and sent mail.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 01:26
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and to counter mobius :

quote:
Even though Mordechai is undoubtedly brave he spread nuclear secrets to states - treason. Even though he was working upon his principles what is the difference between that and other spies working upon their principles? Just because we agree with his principles doesn't make it right.
Daniel, Cambridge, England


quote:
Why all the fuss about Vanunu. When the Rosenbergs sold US nuclear secrets to the USSR they were executed. Therefore he is lucky that there is no death penalty in Israel.
Ralph Phillips, Rishon Le Zion, Israel


quote:
Vanunu was put on trial because he acted against laws and regulations of which he was fully aware. Whether you consider him a hero or not, whether you think it is immoral for a state to possess nuclear weapons or not, claiming that he shouldn't have been convicted is a spit in the face of the rule of law. While it may be easy, for some people, to dismiss this argument due to their all-around suspicion in regard to Israel, a responsible, impartial view could not escape it.
Alon, Haifa, Israel


quote:
The man was entrusted with secrets of great importance to the security of the Israeli people, and betrayed them. He is merely a traitor. He cannot even be called anti-nuclear, as he opposed the strike against Saddam's Osirak nuclear reactor. This traitor has rejected his homeland, his people, and his family. It is a tribute to the rule of law in Israel - the only democracy in the Middle East - that he is now free to continue his treachery.
David, Auckland, New Zealand

Last edited by Sirotnikov on 22-04-2004 at 01:34

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 01:30 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Cyprus and Turkey are in the Middle East and are just as undemocratic as Israel.

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 01:34
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I have no idea how is that connected to anything.

But Israel is more democraic than Turkey, which is a problematic democracy, but it is one.

I have no idea about Cyprus.

Gibsie is offline Gibsie
Emperor
all over the proverbial shop
Jan 1970
time: 05:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 01:36
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quote:
Originally posted by The diplomat

We all hate nukes, but nukes are neccessary for national security. Giving away nukes secrets that put your nation at greater risk, is not being a hero and it is not doing the right thing!

...

In Israel's case, nukes are a formidable deterrent against another Arab invasion. Without nukes, Israel probably would have been attacked again by it's Arab neighbors.


I thought that the main treason this guy commited was by revealing to the world that Israel had a 100 or more nukes. If this information was not already known then how do you propose that the nukes were to act as a deterrent?

Surely if he revealed that Israel has all these nukes, thus giving everyone a reason to not go to war with Israel, and they would never admit this on their own, he should be a great hero in your eyes.

yaroslav is offline yaroslav
Emperor
Madrid, Spain, Europe
Jun 2001
time: 06:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 01:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Kropotkin
Of cource, if he had revealed the nuclear capabilities of any other country in the middle east, he would have been hailed as a hero by everyone.


and would have been executed by any other country.

joncha is offline joncha
Emperor
North of FOPOG
Jan 2003
time: 21:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 01:52
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Vanunu

Sirotnikov is offline Sirotnikov
King
<--- Yes, It's a "kitty" in a boot.
Feb 2000
time: 07:35
  Old Post 22-04-2004 02:09
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