03-10-2000 10:28									#151
	Remove this text

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<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Civfan (edited October 03, 2000).]</font>

	03-10-2000 10:35									#152
	Full PM-box? Change here!

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kaak on 10-03-2000 12:44 AM</font>
Okay...this is getting rediculous. An outline of kaak's thoughts follows....

I. I am not Eyes of Night.
A. We are in the same tribe, we play at the same time.
B. Completely different personalities. I do not attempt to anger people.
II. I do not play with a modified rules.txt. I think the disorder is a good thing, and i am better at handling it than most.

III. HOW THE HELL are you going to incinuate that i cheat?!?!? i am about to get mad.

IV. I think it is sad that none of you can respect the kind of self awareness and vision it took for eyes to see what was going on and make a change to correct it. If only the rest of us were so fortunate =)

iadkins: watch where you tread.

<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Well Kaak, Moker exposed Eyes correctly and suggested you did something similar... I'm sure I'm allowed to ask; AND you have now answered and I accept it. Why tell me to watch where I tread and not cheaters like Eyes?


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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

	03-10-2000 11:15									#153
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

My congratulations to all who persisted in bringing this cheat out to the open. For so long EoN has stood behind his claims of only ever cheating once for a test and he was suitably forgiven by all ( well maybe not all ) but especially Ming who has many times attackerd others who make claims of EoN cheating. With so many people seeing smoke eventually fire had to be seen.

I hope this teaches everyone to save every turn and after game completed go back and check every turn for vaguries and lets expose more cheats.

Most people on line here have played for so long and have seen nearly every strategy avaialble, that when some one who comes along and thrashes one of our Legends they must be regarded as suspicious . But lets not cliam they are cheats til lwe have exposed them properly.

Its like the Olympics, we all suspect that most athletes at some time probably take drugs , but they arent cheating till they fail a drug test. (Or if they American athletes they not cheatinng if you dont tell anyone they failed blood tests)



Long live the Cheat Exposers !!!!!!!!!!!!

	03-10-2000 11:22									#154
	Support Apolyton

your analogy is bad in that what eyes did had the same effect on both players. it did not give one player an advantage that another player did not have.

	03-10-2000 11:42									#155
	Increase the size of your Attachments

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kaak on 10-03-2000 02:22 AM</font>
your analogy is bad in that what eyes did had the same effect on both players. it did not give one player an advantage that another player did not have.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Wrong. It doesn't de facto have the same effect on both players! As pointed out in this thread by others, it allows one player to adjust his strategy accordingly whereas the other player incorrectly thinks he's playing under standard rules. And since the standard rules are stricter than the modified ones (in this case) it obviously favours the host and limits the unaware player.

Carolus

	03-10-2000 11:57									#156
	Increase the size of your Attachments

One example if I may - I'm garissoning my cities to prevent disorder, which I now know never would have happened (!), whilst Eyes just keeps churning out the settlers.


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Don't worry, I won't tell anyone. Your secret is safe with me.

	03-10-2000 12:18									#157
	Suffering from ads?

Well being more of a lurker than a poster, i am glad this is finally out in the open. At least everyone is aware of it and now it can be asked up front i guess so that there is no confusion. Yet another *rule* added to this game. How many more of these cheats are we unaware of? Gosh, i thought gaming was supposed to be fun

Makes me kinda not want to play online if i can't play with people who don't cheat. after all, thats what i am here for

I have read a ton at apolyton, tips , cheats, strategies, and sometimes i wonder if it has taken some of the luster out of playing this game. However it certainly has made me a better player

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Free Trade is good for everyone, it allows you to buy bigger guns!

	03-10-2000 13:22									#158
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

<center><table width=80%><tr><td><font color=000080 face="Verdana" size=2><font size="1">quote:
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1>
</font><font size=1>Originally posted by Kaak on 10-03-2000 02:22 AM</font>
your analogy is bad in that what eyes did had the same effect on both players. it did not give one player an advantage that another player did not have.
<img src=/forums/"/images/blue1.gif" width=100% height=1></font></td></tr></table></center>

Incredible how some people split hairs about the accuracy of an analogy, for Deity's sake, rather than focus on the issue!

You could say that both sides were OFFERED drugs but only one took advantage of it.. OK? happy now?

Kaak: better watch where you tread

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*THE DEITY*
#8388924

	03-10-2000 14:24									#159
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

actually the anaolgy fits well, The american athletes were discovered to be using drugs by their own authorities but they didnt tell anyone so they were allowed to participate in international events, other athletes werent aware that you could get your own authorites to hide the drug results so they struggled ....

	03-10-2000 15:03									#160
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

A question for Kaak.

Scenario A.

i) I challenge you for a duel and you accept
ii) I host
iii) I have changed the expiration date of HG, the effect ends with Map Making
iv) I have changed the expiration date of the Oracle, it never expires.
v) You go for Pottery and HG, I go for Oracle and, as soon as you've completed HG, Map Making.

This is no big deal, right? After all, it affects both players in the same way, right?

Scenario B.

i) I'm tired of the race for HG and change the expiration date of it, the effect ends with Map Making
ii) I figure Oracle is less unbalancing and change the expiration date of it, it never expires.
iii) Looking for other players interested in this twist I tell you about the changes. You think it's an interesting approach and we start a game with me as host

Are these scenarios the same to you?

Before you say anything about how lousy the specific example above is or that you would crush me anyway, it's the principle I'm asking you about. Feel free to substitute whatever changes to the rules text that you like, but the question remains.

Carolus

	03-10-2000 17:00									#161
	Inflate your Upload Space

It's simply unbelievable that people think that changing the rules file AND NOT TELLING YOUR OPPONENT is OK because it effects both people. What a joke.

I have no problem if both people are aware of the changes, and AGREE to play by them... but to simply change it and keep it a secret is just pure cheating.

Yeah CR, there might be better examples, but you make the point.

So... unfortunately (or fortunately) this thread has crossed the 150 post level... and by Apolyton rules, must be closed down.

If anybody feels that this discussion should continue, feel free to start a new thread on the subject.

Case Closed!

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Ming
CivII & Off-Topic Forum Moderator
Ming@Apolyton.net