28-04-2004 06:34									#91
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quote: The 80's were wonderful- Personally, I find SMB3 or SMB2, or contra, or Iron Tank, or many other NES games much more entertaining than modern ones:

Yes, but did they have an adequate multiplayer that could keep at least 8 people, 4 of whcih would be playing, entertained for three days, food and soda supply permitting?

quote: I cans till remember the tune from Dragon Warrior one. Nothing from more modern console games even enters my mind.

That was a truly awesome game. I loved killing the little colored balls of slime.

	28-04-2004 06:35									#92
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quote: IMO anyone who says the Japanese make all good games obviously doesn't look in the wargames market. Japanese wargames are horrid(from my experience, particularly KOEI ww2 games). Operation Europe was ridiculously unbalanced and difficult to play, PTO 1 was alright..but the AI blew, PTO 2 was far too complicated and required too much micromanagement, PTO 4 was too simplified and easy, though it does expand on the series.

the smae can be said for anime. AMerica made BIG O, and tha show is awesome!

	28-04-2004 10:15									#93
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quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear But surely, you have to admit, that modern games can surpass the crap of the eighties. Just becasue a game came out first, doesn't necessarily mean that it was at all good, let alone one of the greatest.

The thing is all of these games were great at their time. You simply can't judge them by today's standards -- although some of them probably are just addictive now as then.

quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear If a game is to be a classic, it not only has to be good when it comes out, but it also, MUST stnad the test of time.

By this logic, there would be no classic games. Newer games of a genre are always better than the older ones. All right, make that some of the newer games.

	28-04-2004 10:16									#94
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quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear Yes, but did they have an adequate multiplayer that could keep at least 8 people, 4 of whcih would be playing, entertained for three days, food and soda supply permitting?

I remember that tons of people got hooked on rogue, who played the games for days on end.

	28-04-2004 12:36									#95
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quote: My FATHER can make the difference between Civ and Morrowind. In Civ, you character doesn't appear on the screen

Neither in Morrowind if you play in first person view .

--

I think this era isn't that bad in video gaming. I mean there are plenty of great games that fall under the radar. I'm playing Gothic II for the first time and I'm having an absolute blast! Of course it is not a huge hyped mainstream game.

	28-04-2004 12:48									#96
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quote: The thing is all of these games were great at their time. You simply can't judge them by today's standards -- although some of them probably are just addictive now as then.

true Dat

quote: By this logic, there would be no classic games. Newer games of a genre are always better than the older ones. All right, make that some of the newer games.

The earlier James Bond games are, in my opinion better than the newer ones.
Calssic games can still exist. Zelda is still more fun than Halo or Morrowind for me a lot of the time. That is a gmae that deserves to up at the front. It is still fun after so long. It doesn't deserve a reservation though.
If we reserve places for games, then we will eventually have to create top 200 lists, b/c the top 100 would already be 'reserved'.

quote: Neither in Morrowind if you play in first person view .

You're actually sort of wrong. It is optional in Morrowind.You can switch between 3rd, and 1st person views.

	28-04-2004 19:36									#97
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark well my wife thinks all these games, are vaguely the same - she doesnt distinguish TBS, FPS, fighters, etc. Is that what you meant???

Exactly. So more geekier you get you can tell the difference between games. SO to a normal person that plays games civ and wargames. same ****ing thing ya know.

quote: Dare I say that your pals who play fighter games sound like the geeky ones to me??

no **** sherlock. different kind of geek i might add.

	28-04-2004 19:38									#98
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark "Real time" my foot.

go back to ur TBS then, ya wargame freak.

quote: Are all your pals as eloquent as you are?

As about as eloquent as my ass. How does that have anything to do with the subject. who the **** gives a **** if i didnt post my **** as fromally as if i was writing for the ny times.

live wit it and stop trying to steer the subject away from something else u ****ing fag.

	28-04-2004 19:42									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor GePap: FF6 Dreamcast was weak on the RPG side (Skies of Arcadia is the best - it is very entertaining, but definitely not deep at all), and FFIX is one of the weakest of the series too.

dreamcast had like rpgs like whoa.
alot of them u had to import though.

	28-04-2004 20:28									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger By this logic, there would be no classic games. Newer games of a genre are always better than the older ones. All right, make that some of the newer games.

There can still be classic games if u enjoyed playing something back in the day. It will bring u nostalgia and all. even if it was crappy game, as long as u enjoyed that **** back in the day.

obvioulsy older games are hardly gonna be good as newer ones that have been improved. Why give extra credit towards older games to make people think a sh*ttier game is actually better? just because it was out earlier?

like i said, older games hsould be respected in their own ways, but it doesnt automatically make them better because it was the first game to be the sh*tty version of that genre.

a good game should be judged without considering release dates.

	28-04-2004 20:35									#101
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quote: Why give extra credit towards older games to make people think a sh*ttier game is actually better? just because it was out earlier?

Because without it this "better" game would not exist.

	28-04-2004 20:44									#102
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I like how u quoted "better". Better game doesnt have a clear cut definition anyway. graphic wise? game designwise? story plot wise? entertainment wise?

Anyways. Why not? Is Civ 3 a better game than civ2? Smac? what if they were released simultaneously? nuff said.

	28-04-2004 21:01									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Zero As about as eloquent as my ass. How does that have anything to do with the subject. who the **** gives a **** if i didnt post my **** as fromally as if i was writing for the ny times. live wit it and stop trying to steer the subject away from something else u ****ing fag.

(gotta love how you push your lack of eloquence to the extreme when talking about this topic )

	28-04-2004 21:07									#104
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Wow did I accidentally log on to the bnet forums by mistake?

	28-04-2004 21:10									#105
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quote: I like how u quoted "better". Better game doesnt have a clear cut definition anyway. graphic wise? game designwise? story plot wise? entertainment wise?

It's because you called them 'better'.

quote: Why not? Is Civ 3 a better game than civ2? Smac? what if they were released simultaneously? nuff said.

But they WEREN'T released simultaneously! That's the point! One was a precursor to the whole thing. SMAC is a better game, but I'd list Civ2 higher on a Top 100 games list of all time because influence counts.

	28-04-2004 21:18									#106
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Well to weigh in with an opinion in this minefield I lean towards UR's view, as I said earlier. Any all time lists for anything where there is natural progression only really make sense if you evaluate the games/players/whatever in comparison with their peer group.

In recent discussions with CoT in similar threads I have repeatedly said that outside of a few games in a few genres gaming today is the best it's ever been. However if making a top 100 list I would still put some games that may be objectively better below infuential games that were giants in their own time frame. IMO that's the only reasonable way to proceed.

Sure you could make an objective top 100 as Zero wants but it wouldn't be anything like as interesting.

	28-04-2004 22:14									#107
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quote: It's because you called them 'better'.

well if u know me, u know what my defintion of better game is. either way, yes, better game is soo subjective.

quote: Sure you could make an objective top 100 as Zero wants but it wouldn't be anything like as interesting.

I guess i can agree to that. And with that I give up on this subject. Too many IMOs...

quote: (gotta love how you push your lack of eloquence to the extreme when talking about this topic )

	29-04-2004 10:48									#108
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Dreamcast gave birth to Shenmue, which gave birth to SHenmue 2 o nthe xbox, which rules!

quote: quote: Originally posted by Zero As about as eloquent as my ass. How does that have anything to do with the subject. who the **** gives a **** if i didnt post my **** as fromally as if i was writing for the ny times. live wit it and stop trying to steer the subject away from something else u ****ing fag. (gotta love how you push your lack of eloquence to the extreme when talking about this topic )

OOOH boy, a humorous flame war, KEEP GOING, BUT WAIT FOR ME TO GET MY BOWL OF POPCORN, AND RECLINER.

quote: SMAC is a better game, but I'd list Civ2 higher on a Top 100 games list of all time because influence counts.

BAH! You must also be a strict constructionalist!

	29-04-2004 19:07									#109
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How about this list:

1. SMAC
2. CIV2
3. C3C
4. SMAX
5: PTW
6. CIV1
7. Ctp2
8. CIV3
9. CtP
10 Antietam
11. Gettysburg
12. RoN
. . .
100. SimGolf

	29-04-2004 21:14									#110
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quote: Originally posted by bipolarbear quote: quote: Originally posted by Zero As about as eloquent as my ass. How does that have anything to do with the subject. who the **** gives a **** if i didnt post my **** as fromally as if i was writing for the ny times. live wit it and stop trying to steer the subject away from something else u ****ing fag. (gotta love how you push your lack of eloquence to the extreme when talking about this topic )!

OMG Either I pwnzed myself or I have SpLiT pErSoNaLiTy!1!!!!!!

	29-04-2004 23:23									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Proserpine How about this list: 1. SMAC 2. CIV2 3. C3C 4. SMAX 5: PTW 6. CIV1 7. Ctp2 8. CIV3 9. CtP 10 Antietam 11. Gettysburg 12. RoN . . . 100. SimGolf

It's a bit myopic, duncha think?

	30-04-2004 02:06									#112
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Sim golf shouldn't eve nmake top 1000

	30-04-2004 15:31									#113
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How did they decide who got on the original lsit? Did they have people vote, or was it an arbitrary decision? Or did each game company have to pay?

	30-04-2004 18:24									#114
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo quote: Originally posted by Proserpine How about this list: 1. SMAC 2. CIV2 3. C3C 4. SMAX 5: PTW 6. CIV1 7. Ctp2 8. CIV3 9. CtP 10 Antietam 11. Gettysburg 12. RoN . . . 100. SimGolf It's a bit myopic, duncha think?

No, I really like TBS, though I was joking (slightly). There are 6 games there on my list which I haven't even played.

	01-05-2004 02:35									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I like the series because of FF6. How dare you diss the best opus of the series!

Well, lessee...the plot disintegrates halfway through the game, the colors and GFX are pretty ugly, the battle speed seems sluggish even when you jack it up all the way, and the characters are revoltingly unbalanced. Sabin and Edgar are good, Terra, Celes, Setzer, and Locke are solid...the rest are crap filler characters. It's just not fun.

I agree that FF7 is good though. FFIV was the game that introduced ATB, and it's such a huge leap ahead of the competition of the time as to merit some notice, even if it doesn't deserve the nine spot. So it's the first totally inflexible character-levelling game in the series. So what? It's oddly likable in many ways.

	01-05-2004 07:53									#116
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I disagree that on that it wasnt fun. I had a whole load of fun playing FF6.

Its also the only RPG I played hardcore. I can beat that game in 12hrs. Once, done it without saving. And beat the game under lv 24. (Hardcore player record is FAR lower than that though.)

I can kinda agree that it wasnt a good game and story plot had flaws, but my fanboyism is starting to cloud my judgement.

i hated FF7. I just didnt like it, for whatever personal preference i guess. I cant comment on how good the story plot was cause i didnt finish any ff games since ff6.

	01-05-2004 07:58									#117
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i started touching rpg materials during SNES era, so theres probably a huge bias on why i like ff4, ff6, SOM, BOF, chrono trigger and later wild arms 1, while not liking any other RPG much at all. (I dont like RPG genre in general).

RPGs suck.

	01-05-2004 09:01									#118
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The wild arms games suck. Totally boring. I hate all of the final fantasy shizzinat too. Turn based= =not fun=boring=crappy game= over hyped=crappier game=crappier sequels=the gradual overtaking of the world by pure turn based crap.

	01-05-2004 09:03									#119
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quote: RPGs suck.

No. You suck. I will reference KOTOR, secret of Mana, Morrowind, ther are more, but I'll leave some for eveyone else to biotch about.

	01-05-2004 10:27									#120
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KOTOR is piece of crap. SO is morrowind. SO YOU SUCK!!!1!
I played morrowind. and after 5 min of playing i dozed off. and before I NEVER FELL ASLEEP WHILE PLAYING A GAME EVER WTF ROFL!!!11!!!

what crap...

SOM is good, but thats only because i played it back in the day. That game is broken gay too.

Anyways lets keep this opinion based flame going!