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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:35
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From L'Humanité
quote:
Ils disent l'enfer de Falouja
Réfugiés après avoir vécu au milieu des combats dans la ville sunnite, ils témoignent du palier de violence franchi par les forces d'occupation US.
Bagdad, correspondance particulière
Ses yeux trahissent l'effroi. Recroquevillée sous une tente blanche, aménagée à la hâte par le Croissant-Rouge irakien, Jadida Djedou fait partie des cinquante familles de Falouja, installées provisoirement dans le camp d'Al-Khadra du quartier Al-Mansour, à Bagdad. Regard obscur, habillée de la traditionnelle robe noire, la mère de famille ne peut retenir ses sanglots. Malgré la douleur, elle raconte l'enfer de Falouja. Deux semaines à côtoyer et à attendre la mort. " Les corps jonchaient les rues de la ville. Le neuf avril dernier, J'en ai compté trente-cinq ne serait-ce que dans mon quartier. " Trois de ses proches ont péri. Un miracle à côté de familles qui en ont perdu plus de vingt.
Sous les crocs des chiens
Beaucoup d'habitants sont morts ensevelis sous les décombres de leur maison tandis que d'autres étaient abattus par les Marines. Les cadavres, abandonnés dans les rues, ont fini sous les crocs des chiens. " Nous avons essayé de les ramasser pour leur donner une sépulture mais à chaque fois on nous a tirés dessus ou dit de dégager ", explique-t-elle. Tous les témoignages recueillis parlent d'un massacre digne des pires scénarios. À l'entrée de la tente, Hassan, un voisin, lève les bras au ciel. Il crie vengeance. " Bush et son lieutenant Bremer sont l'invention du diable. Qui sont-ils pour juger du destin de tout un peuple ? Combien de sang devrons-nous verser pour être libres ? " interroge le vieil homme. Les témoins font état de plusieurs centaines de victimes depuis le lancement de l'offensive, le 4 avril dernier. Trouver des cadavres à tous les coins de rue est devenu " tristement banal " à Falouja. " Les soldats ont fracturé des portes pour entrer dans les maisons. Ils criaient : où sont les résistants, dites-le nous sinon on vous tue. " Hassan a perdu plusieurs proches. Aujourd'hui encore, il est sans nouvelle de son beau-frère, accusé d'être un membre de la guérilla. La tête recouverte d'un sac, le M16 posé contre la tempe, les marines l'ont " embarqué puis jeté en prison ". Du moins, il l'espère. L'intensification des bombardements, ainsi que " les tirs aveugles " des Américains, l'ont convaincu de fuir la zone de combats. À l'issue de plusieurs jours de marche, sans vêtement ni eau et nourriture, Hassan a rejoint sain et sauf le camp de réfugiés d'Al-Khadra, tenu par le docteur Mohammad Jumaa, un des responsables du Croissant-Rouge irakien. Il y a deux semaines, ce dernier a dû quitter précipitamment la ville de Falouja dans laquelle il travaillait. Le centre de santé de l'organisation a été la cible des forces américaines. " Ils nous ont demandés par haut-parleur de cesser nos activités puis nous ont aussitôt bombardés ", dénonce-t-il. Avant de partir, le docteur Jumaa a ramassé les corps de deux Irakiens d'une trentaine d'années. Il raconte : " ils avaient les yeux bandés, les mains liées dans le dos. Leurs jambes et thorax étaient remplis d'ecchymoses. " Pour cet orthopédiste de formation, nul doute à avoir : les Américains ont infligé en toute impunité des tortures à la population. Dans le camp de Bagdad, les réfugiés de Falouja portent leur histoire à bout le bras. Leur enfer revêt désormais un autre visage. " Ici, on manque de tout. Depuis notre départ, nos enfants souffrent de diarrhées, d'allergies. On en peut plus, on veut rentrer chez nous, malheureusement, il ne nous reste plus rien ", disent-ils.
Combien de sang devrons-nous verser ?
Tous ces témoins révèlent le palier de violence franchi par les troupes US dans leurs combats dans le triangle sunnite. Dernièrement, Mark Kimmit, responsable adjoint des opérations militaires de la coalition, expliquait qu'il s'agissait de " l'offensive la plus significative " depuis le 1er mai 2003, fin officielle de la guerre. Le haut commandement américain parle d'une résistance composée de plusieurs centaines de combattants issus de l'ancienne garde républicaine de Saddam Hussein, des services de renseignements du moukhbarat, d'" habitants ultra conservateurs " et de combattants étrangers. Fortement organisés et entraînés au combat, les fidèles de l'ancien dictateur utiliseraient des armes de tous types : Kalachnikov, mortiers, lance-roquettes, roquettes antichars et même des missiles sol-air russe Strela. Le vieil Hassan veut y voir " la résistance de tout un peuple " et il interroge la voix pleine d'indignation : " Mais combien de sang devrons-nous verser pour être libres ? " |
Summary:
Those are testimonies of Iraqis who have fled Fallujah, and made it to refugee camps in Baghdad. They explain how corspses are piling up in the streets. One interviewed woman has lost three relatives in the fightings, which is low compared to some of her acquaintances having lost 20 of them.
The American troops fire indiscriminately, and many people have died under the rubble of their bombed houses. American troops barge in houses, and threaten to kill the inhabitants if they don't tell where the resistors are. Some civilians managed to flee Fallujah, however it is a very difficult: Baghdad is days away of Fallujah. Many kids suffer from disease in the refugee camps.
A doctor of the Red Crescent explains his base of operation in Fallujah has been ordered to close down, and has been attacked immediately after the warning. He has seen young people whose legs and thorax were full of ecchymoses, a sign the Americans are torturing people there.
I thought it is interesting to post this. It helps us see the Americans are not the nice civilized guys fighting against the evil and barbaric terrorists.
Besides, what I read reminded me of two major traumas: the occupation of France by nazi Germany, and the occupation of Algiers by French troops. Both occupations were retaliatory in nature, and both occupations used massive threats to force civilians to cooperate with the occupier. Both involved torture, included of many innocent people who knew no info. Both were animated by the belief the occupier was somehow superior (either racially or politically superior) to the occupied.
And we are witnessing the same right now. You have to give Kudos to the self-proclaimed most advanced country in the world for doing this 
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Yef
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That's Arab propaganda.
They have a long history of exagerating what is done to them, and forgetting what they do to others.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:35
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Ollie:
Excellent picture 
I must admit there is something I really loathe in the way Americans see their war, it is their absolute belief to be right, to bring all that is great and good for the targets. I heard it being called the "messianic vocation" of the US, and I think it is spot-on.
Yesterday, I had a meeting with old comrades, and we ended up talking about the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan. The arguments used by the Soviets and by their sycophants (we were their sycophants back in the day), were frighteningly similar with the US and Iraq. A belief to bring progress and justice, which allowed to overlook for any horror (what horrors? How could the Russians / the Americans perpetrate any horror? They're far above that! )
If it wasn't for the incomparable belief to be right, maybe the Americans would avoid slaughtering Civilians, and dismiss that slaughter under the PC word of "colateral damage". But for this, they'd have to tolerate the idea their methods could be wrong.
I'm damn glad the politicians stepped in, and forbade to attack mosques. In France, we have a particularily painful memory of the occupation, the incident of Oradour sur Glane:
The Germans knew some resistors were harbored in the village of Oradour sur Glane. They decided to launch a retaliatory operation on the village. The population looked for a sanctuary in the church. The Germans burned down the Church, and every villager within burned to death. It is the single most barbarous act of the German occupation of France (and I know it is nothing compared to their ordinary handlings in Eastern Europe).
This is what happens when you attack religious buildings in a religious country - you are bound to destroy all the civilians who looked for a safe haven, and who believed religious buildings are respected.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
No.
"Colateral damage" is the PC word for the slaughter of civilians. The fact it is not done on purpose doesn't make it any less terrible for the victims. When you bomb a house and kill the inhabitants, whether voluntary or not, makes no difference for those who weep. It only makes a difference for the culprits to continue feeling good about it  |
Intention matters in international law, and I think in morality.
Spiff, Frenchmen were killed by American and British bombers in WW2, IIUC. Do you call that "slaughtering civilians"?
US in Iraq vs USSR in Afghanistan. A vast difference in tactics - do we really need here to go into detail on Soviet tactics in Afghanistan??? And a vast difference in the political situation - Iraq today has a range of political parties, newspapers, etc, and has had local elections across the country, and will have national elections in less than a year.
I will freely admit that my country has done wrong, in Iran in 1954, and in Latin America. But thats NOT whats going on in Iraq now. If we wanted to "take the gloves off" we could have level Fallujah already, and Najaf as well. We could have crushed Muqtada Al Sadr back in May of 2003, and not given him a year to build up his strength. If we were fighting like the Soviets did in Afghanistan, Ayatollah Sistani would be in jail, and Ahmed Chalabi would be president of Iraq, and criticizing him would be a felony. And UN reps like Brahimi would be nowhere to be found.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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From Strategy Page:
quote:
The marines won’t release any numbers of sniper kills (except that the top scoring sniper in Fallujah has 24 kills so far), but it is known from emails coming back that the marines use snipers, and sniping tactics (for non-snipers), extensively. Part of this is to comply with the Rules of Engagement (ROE) that call for minimizing civilian casualties. Most often, the marines only use a lot of fire power when they are ambushed (there is no better way to deal with an ambush than to blast your way out of it). But most of the Iraqi gunmen are killed by single shots, usually by the trained snipers, after the snipers and their commanders had carefully set up sniper firing positions that covered areas they knew Iraqis liked to travel through. UAVs and lots of scouting, plus questioning of prisoners, reveals the Iraqi routes and makes them deadly to use. This has terrorized the Iraqis, which is exactly what it is intended to do. The army and marine snipers particularly like to work at night, when their night vision and thermal imaging equipment enables them to shoot accurately in the darkness. This further reduces the chance of civilian losses, and increases the terror.
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Yef
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Those are refugees answering a French journalist. Propaganda implies an organised and systematised attempt at bringing information, foten orchestrated by an organization (government). I strongly doubt these refugees have been briefed to tell coherent lies to journalists. |
Arab propaganda is orchestrated through their mosques. They all know that the more they exagerate and lie about what the US is doing in Irak the more chances they have of:
1- Bringing international preassure to bear on the US, and force them to leave.
2- Enrage the Arabs masses and provoke an general uprising beyond what the US can deal with.
3- Gain sympathy from the Euros, whom will send money to help the "civilians".
4- Get volunteers from Arab countries.
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Well, sure, this woman only lost three of her relatives, the refugees only saw corspes piling in their streets, they only saw bombed houses with corpses in the rubble. What's the fuss about?  |
Hey, and why is this happening ONLY in that town?
Because they have been killing anyone that drives by, because the shoot at any coalition vehicle in the area.
Fallujah is terrorist nest, and it is so because the local population supports them and hide them when coalition forces appear.
That's the Arab way of lies.
They always claim to be the victims of injustices. They forget all that they do, all that they begin but fail to finish, and they forget all the injustice and suffering they have caused to other people.
There are 30 millions Kurds who remain stateless to this day, suffering from Arab persecution. But the only mention of an independent Kurddish State in their corner of Irak brings all the Arabs to the street enraged at how "their land" its being taken by those evil Kurds.
And what about the millions of Berbers in North Africa that resisted the Arab onslaught for centuries? Their language and culture are largely outlawed today. Millions in Black Africa have died resisting this forced Arabization, as well, and the fight continues in Sudan with millions of Blacks having been killed, maimed, enslaved, turned into refugees and the like.
For the Arabs, if you are not Arab, you are a dog, and they will use you, manipulate you, and learn how to speak to you with words of peace to convince you of their "plight", to receive your support, untill you become unnecessary. Then they will cut your throat for being an infidel if you resist, or make you a serf if you submit.
For them, we are only dhimmies. For them, theirs is the only justice.
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