30-04-2004 20:31									#1
	What to do about a POSSIBLE Information Leak Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

OK if you want to discuss the possible information leak we have based on somthing Trip said ib chat please discuss it here.

The chat log or at least part of it is posted in the OPSEC THREAD

This is a partial log of what transpired last might in chat with Trip. This was in the PtW ISDG chat channel and Trip is a very active member of that Apoly Demo game team:

Direct quote from E-T in the other thread:

quote: Now, some reasons for this being posted now quote: partial log, rest will get posted tomorrow [Trip> sorry E_T, I was busy admiring our empire which has a lot more cities than Apolytonia does... :yawn: [E_T> Oh, and what year is it? [Trip> doesn't matter which year [Trip> we can go to the year you guys are in [E_T> I was just wondering if your compairing the right years [Trip> yes [Trip> we are a few turns ahead, but backtracking doesn't make much of a difference [E_T> well, your somehow mistaken [Trip> and why is that so [E_T> because, you are and you have no clue as to the things that are going on at this moment [Trip> so sayeth you [Trip> I get scores and top cities list from people in that game [Arnelos> which is pretty clear if he's comparing number of cities... [Trip> I watch what's going on [Trip> 1 city [Trip> maybe 2 soon? [WhiteBandit> hahaha The really telling part of ths snip is this quote: [Trip> I get scores and top cities list from people in that game I'll see about posting the full (spam edited) Logs, from both the channel that this was recorded from and our Internal chat about the subject. I'll have to do that tomorrow, sometime. E_T

	30-04-2004 20:45									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

He's getting the top cities pic and the scores?

May not neccessarily be from our team. Just thought I'ld point that out.

	30-04-2004 20:45									#3
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

MWIA, I have moved your question here and will answer it in a few minutes, at least to the best of my ability

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt * MrWhereItsAt feels dumb Not knowing what Trip's status is, what exactly is this "telling"?

	30-04-2004 21:08									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I moved this from other thread

Summery:

- Trip is on CGN team, in other game
- Trip is doing their MoI things (among other stuff apparently)
- Trip claims that CGN will soon wipe out GCA
- Trip looks forward to compeating against Apolyton. He wants to show us up.
- Trip is contemptuois of our MoI Department
- Trip is getting a LOT more Info than he should be getting
- Trip was being an A$$

Log (edited for as much spam as possible):

quote: [Trip> Arne, are you there? [Arnelos> yep [Trip> I was wondering how you made the score graphs [Arnelos> ah [Arnelos> it's rather crude, to be honest [Arnelos> basically, the score that is posted by the game is actually an average [WhiteBandit> you always say that, but i never understand where you got to "raw" score from [Trip> errr [Trip> I know all that Arne [Trip> here [Trip> let me send you my info [Arnelos> since an average is, in reality, the sum of all VPs over all turns merely divided by the number of turns..... therefore the change in score from turn to turn is a reflection of how much that cummulative total has changed from the previous turn. If you know both the cummulative score over all previous turns AND the change in score, you can determine (with a rather wide margin of error, however), the approximate value of THAT [Trip> I understand that [Trip> I have an xls tracking all of that [Trip> I want to get those very smooth curves you have [Arnelos> oh, that [Trip> because of the margin of error my lines are all zig-zaggy :\ [WhiteBandit> don't tell him! [WhiteBandit> he is using it in C3C ISDG! [WhiteBandit> spy! [Arnelos> lol [Trip> unless you got E_T working in the C3C ISDG then Catagonia's economic planning will be much more thorough than Apolytonia's [Arnelos> no it won't [MasterZen> frankly I don't really care [MasterZen> i'm just a lurker in the C3CDG [Arnelos> Let me just say that the APolyton C3C ISDG team has much of the same DM team as the American Imperialist team in the MZO C3C DG... they know their stuff [E_T> We don't just need me.... [Trip> hehe [Trip> I know your intelligence gathering isn't as good either [Trip> I'll have to crop out my demographics intel from this xls as well... [WhiteBandit> evidentially you don't know much then [Arnelos> anyhow... Trip - the zigzags are actually more useful than the approximation during the early game... those jumps in score are more likely to be meaningful in the early stages of the game... sometimes you can notice a jump and figure it's due to a new city or something... by watching the individual numbers, you can even figure out if someone hooked up a luxury early on. The approximation isn't as useful until later. [Arnelos> as for the approximation, it's a standard excel feature... [Arnelos> I tell it to use a polynomial function and I sometimes just play around with the stupid thing (it only lets you adjust number of terms between 1 and 6) until it gets closer to the actual data points. [Arnelos> it's not very good... it's really just meant as a visual aid [Trip> can you email your scoresheet to me? . [snip] . [E_T> you were making a general question, to anyone in this room and more or less, people from the C3C Poly team [Trip> it was more of a statement than a question [Trip> since I know you're not their MOI [E_T> hence, my comments, accurate and stinging as they might be [E_T> still, doesn't mean that our MoI isn't incompetant [Arnelos> if Trip really thinks that the likes of GodKing, Rhothaerill, Arrian, and company are "incompetent", god bless it [Trip> yes, I agree, he might be incompetant :P [Trip> Arne: I don't recall ever saying such a thing [Trip> maybe you can find a quote [MasterZen> [Trip> unless you got E_T working in the C3C ISDG then Catagonia's economic planning will be much more thorough than Apolytonia's [Trip> I respect all of their talents, but I don't see them doing the kind of in-depth work that E_T does in this game and that I do in the other [Trip> that's what I was saying [Arnelos> you'd be surprised... [Trip> the fact that there are so many people working on it is also an indicator [E_T> and how can you judge that, Trip, your not EVEN in our game [Trip> 4 mes would be less efficient than 1 me :P [WhiteBandit> yes, but infinitely more infuriating [MasterZen> lol [Arnelos> Trip - that's just because you don't... hall shall I put this... "work well with others" [E_T> one of you is Much more than enough.... * Trip laughs [Trip> fine [Trip> we will see who is best in the next round [Trip> that is why I left this team [Trip> I don't need the rest of you to win [WhiteBandit> yes [E_T> ROFLMAO [WhiteBandit> that's exactly the problem people have with you :P . [snip] general laughter at Trip . [MasterZen> see, here's the thing. If CGN does not win round 2, AGAINST APOLYTON, I'll laugh as your ego tumbles down to the floor :P [Arnelos> besides... the PTW ISDG is far better off for having both Trip and E_T constantly arguing with one another. No offense to either of us, but both of you would be significantly less effective without the other pushing you to consider things you wouldn't otherwise consider. [Trip> this is not the PTW DG 1 [Trip> you may not know what is going on in group 2 [Trip> but take a wild guess as to who is first in score [Trip> who is first in GNP [Trip> who is first in MFG [Trip> who is first in Prod [Trip> and by how much [WhiteBandit> that means nothing :P [WhiteBandit> GWT is first in all that right now [E_T> as we ALL know [WhiteBandit> and will not be soon :P [MasterZen> yeah [Arnelos> Trip - I recall that CGN did really well in those categories in the PTW ISDG [WhiteBandit> One man does not a team make. :P [Trip> and we all know their economic and military capabilities [Arnelos> Actually, as I recall, miccofl told NYE that Apolyton was the "last place team" for being behind in such things early in the game. [Trip> and the fact that they did so well early on was due to their land advantage and free Settler [Arnelos> you and we both know that score doesn't matter worth **** [E_T> Although, having a really good Quarterback does help, but then, you have to protect him, so that he can through that long bomb, game winning pass, too [Trip> of course it doesn't [Arnelos> besides... I like what I'm hearing [Trip> it's when you're first in everything that things really show through [Arnelos> precisely [Trip> I am not miccofl [Arnelos> I like what I'm hearing [Trip> I am not one to make his mistakes [Arnelos> if you guys make it to the next game, it's entirely possible that we need not compete if some of our mutual rivals must be dispatched first (read GWT and GCA...) [Trip> heh [Trip> GCA will be dead soon enough [Arnelos> I imagine so [Trip> and we will win this game [Trip> I assure you [Trip> enough pieces are in place [Arnelos> Good. [E_T> "your peice fit into her place" [Arnelos> I'm pretty sure we want you guys in the next game [MasterZen> to CRUSH YOU [Trip> hehehe [E_T> yeah [Trip> we'll see about that [Arnelos> no [Arnelos> We just want them in the game [WhiteBandit> rest assured,you will see about that. [MasterZen> no, I seriously want to crush Trip [WhiteBandit> buahahaha [Arnelos> I think it will work to improve the overall dynamic of that game [Trip> yes [Trip> the best teams should be in the next game [Trip> so don't kill off anyone important [E_T> shoot, IF CGA was to make it to the next round, we would even Ally with them, after all of this shist that youve been spouting, just to take you down... [WhiteBandit> lol! [Trip> trust me, they won't [WhiteBandit> this is hilarious [Trip> so you can start making up other schemes right now [Arnelos> Trip - you forget about GCA being "Lucky", perchance? ;p [Trip> that helped against our army too [E_T> Oh, are you pulling "Lucky's" now? [E_T> I didn't think you even needed to do that, Trip [WhiteBandit> bah [WhiteBandit> now you're just trolling E_T :P [Trip> where did I say I was? [Trip> WB: don't worry, I'm just trying to get E_T to be more active in the next game [WhiteBandit> if you do that, then you are sealing your coffin :P [Trip> ha [E_T> all depends, Trip, all depends [Trip> we will see about that [WhiteBandit> no we won't [WhiteBandit> it's a given fact [WhiteBandit> you will be dead. :P [Trip> evidence? [WhiteBandit> open up an ISDG save and look :P [E_T> hehe] [Trip> and what evidence do you have of my economic capabilities? [MasterZen> LUX! [WhiteBandit> well none, but lots of evidence of your economic incompetence! :-D * WhiteBandit jests! [E_T> FAM, too [WhiteBandit> (mostly) . [snip] . [Trip> sorry E_T, I was busy admiring our empire which has a lot more cities than Apolytonia does... :yawn: [E_T> Oh, and what year is it? [Trip> doesn't matter which year [Trip> we can go to the year you guys are in [E_T> I was just wondering if your compairing the right years [Trip> yes [Trip> we are a few turns ahead, but backtracking doesn't make much of a difference [E_T> well, your somehow mistaken [Trip> and why is that so [E_T> because, you are and you have no clue as to the things that are going on at this moment [Trip> so sayeth you [Trip> I get scores and top cities list from people in that game [Arnelos> which is pretty clear if he's comparing number of cities... [Trip> I watch what's going on [Trip> 1 city [Trip> maybe 2 soon? . [snip] Major Spam stuff . [Trip> so has anyone started the "We need to gangbang Trip in the next round" thread in the C3C forum yet? [Arnelos> no [Arnelos> why would we? [Arnelos> *seriously* [Trip> Arne: because E_T is still on the team even if he's not as active as this game [Trip> I figured he'd be on top of that by now . [end of log]

I'll post the stuff from our Private chatroom shortly

E_T

	30-04-2004 21:12									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

Thanks E-T you beat me to it

We have an issue here, Trip may possibly be getting privledged information from game one. (His team for this demo game is CGN and he is in game 2,, we are in game 1.)

Now before we all go off half cocked and assume he actually has the information, just because he says he has it doesn't mean he actually does have it.

Looking at the year we are in (Easily seen in the "pass the Save Thread" at the UN) and knowing we are the Greeks and knowing we probably built a granary first, what he actually told us he knows can be relatively easily figured out. Especially for Trip, he KNOWS this team.

So what Im saying is he could have just been fishing for information, and based on his extremely well known HUGE EGO, he went fishing just a little too far.

Note that no where in that chat log did he say what the actual scores or the top cities were.

He just said: "he was getting the information"

Im playing the devils advocate here because just because someone (and especially someone of Trips tremendous Ego) saying they have something doesn't necessarily mean they are guilty.

BUT with that being said this provides a perfect example why we need to be careful with what information we share.

My recommendation if we want to persue this further is to use Trips Ego against him and actually try and trick him into telling us something substantial that would confirm he actually has been getting the info.

And a big to the guys who handled this in chat last night. they did (at least IMHO) a great job not disclosing any information on our team that they shouldn't have.

Last edited by conmcb25 on 30-04-2004 at 21:31

	30-04-2004 21:52									#6
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

our Secure chat room discussion, while Trip was spounting off

I'll leave it to Arnie and Con to Summerize this


Edit By con, this is my summary:
I was kind of in a daze because i has just awoken, when this chat took place and I was asleep in my easy chair when the main part of the chat with Trip took place. But what I see here is Trip potentially is getting leaked info from this game. But I dont see enough to incriminate him. I think if we want to persue this further we should try and use his ego against him to draw out more info. The main points of this chat were catching me up, making sure we posted the logs and then the debate on just what was true and what was Trip being full of $hit. I was trying to play the devils advocate here, because publically making this acusation, is going to take a lot more evidence IMHO. [/edit]

Edited for mostly launguage

quote: [E_T> Trip is SO Full of himself [Arnelos> yes, he is [Arnelos> I like that [E_T> lots of info we are getting from him [Arnelos> frankly, I want to encourage it [MasterZen> he is his own worst enemy [Arnelos> precisely [MasterZen> one you push him into bragging, he can't stop [E_T> and talking about Intel and then spilling a whole sh*tload [Arnelos> the question I'm wrangling with right now is how to encourage him to do this even when we aren't around [Arnelos> with other teams [Arnelos> that's the tricky part [E_T> Open chat sometime [Arnelos> Ideally, I would *want* CGN to win the first round by leaps and bounds... they come into the second game as the "team to beat"... one all too likely to get beat up on. It might even provide us some very needed cover if we're winning the PTW ISDG by that point. [MasterZen> and then we pull the diplomatic gang-bang card [E_T> some "Intel" to the right ears might cement the right alliances in this game [MasterZen> because booooy, you bet I'll be active in Round 2 [MasterZen> by the tiem Round 2 starts, the PTWDG and ISDG will be over [MasterZen> I'll only have 1 demo game to worry about [E_T> No, it will still be going, but I hope that we are to a point that I can "retire" from it [E_T> thing is, how is he getting his Info? [Kloreep|idle> Good question * Kloreep|idle sets mode: +o MasterZen [E_T> is he hacking into upload files or something? [E_T> this is not good, we have a major leak [Kloreep|idle> There realy should not be too much information shared between games, though I don't see how top 5 and scores can lead to map info or such leaking, which would be quite serious [E_T> screenshots [Kloreep|idle> ? [E_T> screenshots of things, has to be [E_T> all of that is on the shots [Kloreep|idle> He said he got lists, not necessarily screenies [Kloreep|idle> Though I wouldn't be surprised if they were direct screenies [E_T> I think he's somehow getting addresses of things from the upload areas [Kloreep|idle> You think he'd do that? [E_T> well, somehow, somewhere, he's getting info that he SHOULDN'T even have any idea about [Kloreep|idle> Agreed on that [E_T> THAT is serious enough [E_T> either there is a link to the forum, or a backdoor or something [E_T> and he might not be the one doing it, but he's obviously using info that he shouldn't have * E_T is now known as E_T[smokin] [conmcb25> What info are we talking about? [conmcb25> The number of cities business/ [conmcb25> ?? [E_T[smokin]> that, score and possibly even placement * E_T[smokin] is now known as E_T [conmcb25> He could just guess we were behind knowing we would go for a Granary [conmcb25> he did n't atually tell us anyhing? [conmcb25> That I saw? [E_T> no, it's too much info that he's bantering about [E_T> thing is, he shouldn't have this kind of info, practically at all [Arnelos> if he has half a brain, he knows the reason is that we went for a granary [E_T> it's almost like he was rubbing our noses in it [conmcb25> Well I was asleep and may have missed it but I didn't see any specifics [Arnelos> neither did I, but we can guess [conmcb25> If There are and we can prove it we ought to report him to the admins [Arnelos> they got a good start and used to pump settlers... whoopdi freakin' doo [conmcb25> I have told arnelos and maybe others before [conmcb25> I just dont trust him [E_T> I think it's a leak in our team, from what he was saying [Arnelos> could be another team [Arnelos> who knows [Arnelos> I'm not really concerned about it [E_T> or a possible combination [Arnelos> I think it most likely he's taling to CDG [conmcb25> He HAS been posting at the ladder a lot lately [Arnelos> *talking [Arnelos> true, that or the ladder [Arnelos> Personally, I suspect CDG [conmcb25> 24 posts at there forum since last week [E_T> Hmmmm, maybe that dude who had the password "crack" [conmcb25> Just started posting there out of he blue [Arnelos> we could alert PAL to the possibility [conmcb25> the blue [Arnelos> hell, that would be our best move [Arnelos> and do it PRIVATELY [conmcb25> Whats alerting PAL going to do if this guy is alraedy perma banned? [conmcb25> the crack dude? [Arnelos> no, no, no... it's the impact on people's thinking [E_T> and alert OctX and Togas, maybe even Donegeal, as he deals with the list of people in the team [Arnelos> I doubt this is a spy problem on our own team [E_T> Arnie, I think you should handle that, send F-P a PM about it [Arnelos> though we should, to be sure, reiterate teh necessity of not sharing information [Arnelos> E_T - hell, have you posted your bits about Op-Sec yet [Arnelos> E_T - con can handle F-P [conmcb25> Ya Im just wondering what to tell him? [E_T> Actually, I think you would be better, as you seem to understand this better than Con seems to [Arnelos> E_T - have you re-posted your OpSec info yet? [Arnelos> We should probably just repost that entire thread * E_T isn't putting con down, but he's still catching up.... [Arnelos> con has a good working relationship with F-P [conmcb25> Well Id understand better if I saw what he said [E_T> I really didn;t think I had to, but I'll see about it [E_T> maybe as a follow up to someone else's post [Arnelos> just post a new thread and copy and paste [conmcb25> From what I saw it could just be an educated guess [Arnelos> why not? the only people on the team not on the PTW one are CFC people [E_T> not from they way he was saying things [E_T> almost as if he was looking at screenshots while he was looking at his game [conmcb25> are you guys talking about what he said in about the last hour? [E_T> around there [Arnelos> He specifically stated that he had knowledge of the F11 screen information [Arnelos> whether he's been seeing F11 screenshots or whether he's betting getting the information second hand, he's been getting it [Arnelos> Trip's character suggests to me that he's boasting because he really has it [E_T> [Trip> unless you got E_T working in the C3C ISDG then Catagonia's economic planning will be much more thorough than Apolytonia's [E_T> starting from just before here [Arnelos> My concern is not so much that Trip is analyzing our play. I'm not concerned about that. Trip already knows our team pretty well. I'm concerned if Trip is sharing that analysis with a team he is not on... that's the part that needs to be stopped. [E_T> he does like to talk [Arnelos> if he's getting the information from someone, he's bound to be talking to them about it [Arnelos> which makes him a de facto contributor to a team [E_T> he's in so many chat channels, it;s really hard to police them all [Arnelos> of course, it will stoke his ego if we try to have him silenced on that. He'll laugh about how "valuable" we fear he is. I don't care about that. Let Trip brag if he wants to. My concern is Trip working as an analyst for an otherwise clueless team. [Arnelos> the thing I really like about Trip being a leader for CGN's team is that Trip is Trip... diplomatically, it's going to be a mixed bag, but it may also help us in some ways in the second game. We'll need to discuss that when and if we survive this game... Trip's monstrous ego can be used against him. It had a lot more to do with out how Lux Invicta fell than he'd ever be willing to admit. But let's survive this game first. [MasterZen> I'll take it upon myself to trounce CGN diplomatically in Round 2 :P [Arnelos> let's survive Game 1 first [Arnelos> but yes.... I dearly hope Trip and miccofl are the heads of CGN diplomacy in Game 2 [E_T> do we even have a classified Info thread in C3C? [MasterZen> Evil Planning XP 5.0bis 2004 Improved * WIA has quit IRC (Quit: ) [Arnelos> besides... what the HELL is Trip thinking trying to antagonize a potential ally (even if only for part of the game) in Game 2? [Arnelos> the game hasn't even been formed yet [Arnelos> :sigh: [Arnelos> For all he knows, the French team and the German team could both be in Game 2 and both be out for CGN's blood. [Arnelos> unless he knows about contact information in our games as well, of course [Arnelos> even then, at least one will make it, of course [Arnelos> (or most likely) [MasterZen> we should've started an MZO team :P [MasterZen> nah [conmcb25> [02:59] [@E_T> do we even have a classified Info thread in C3C? [conmcb25> No [MasterZen> MZO team for Civ4 [Arnelos> bah [Arnelos> Apolyton Team [conmcb25> No on e ha stepped forward o be the Intell guy [Arnelos> it's the same damn people [MasterZen> well [Arnelos> no need to split the team [MasterZen> depends [MasterZen> it'd be interesting to see if the group that chooses MZO is superior to the group that chooses Poly [Arnelos> I doubt it [E_T> I;ll start the thread, if I can't find something, digging now [MasterZen> depends on who stays and who doesn't [Arnelos> I'm betting most of the strat forum guys stay with 'poly, especially for Civ4... and there will be enough diplomatic talent for an awesome team [Kloreep|idle> If there had been a MZO team, both it and Poly would be the worse for wear [Arnelos> yup [Arnelos> that's my point [Arnelos> keep the team together... kick A$$ [Kloreep|idle> Perhaps in the future once some of the poly games have wrapped up, though [Kloreep|idle> That'll probably never happen, though [conmcb25> Go ahead E_T on the intell thread [conmcb25> We can link other threads to it and Ill top it [Kloreep|idle> As soon as anyone is at loose ends DG-wise, someone goes and starts another one (*cough* PTWDGII *cough*) [conmcb25> I think we can post this chat [conmcb25> the one where trip had diarrhea of the mouth [conmcb25> But I just read it and am concerned but still did not see real hard facts [MasterZen> lol [MasterZen> and of the brain :P [conmcb25> So Im not convinced [Arnelos> E_T - start that OpSec thread ;p [conmcb25> and to make accusations or take it outside the team, I think we would need more [E_T> working on it [conmcb25> Im just being the devils advocate here [conmcb25> I think most of what he said could be educated guesses as well as he knows us [conmcb25> and he is fishing for info [Kloreep|idle> Just yanking our chains, eh? [Kloreep|idle> Could be [Kloreep|idle> Or fishing [Arnelos> con - understood. However, I think we should at least make some reserved statements to certain teams to let them know that we find certain behavior unacceptable. Cut it off at the pA$$. [conmcb25> I think that is what he is doing at the ladder right now as well [conmcb25> well lets post the pertinent portions of the chat [conmcb25> Im still not sure what I would tell F-P [MasterZen> F-P J00 R LAZY AN R TEH SUK!!!1! [MasterZen> ok, not then :P [Arnelos> "F-P j00 R 73H |4Zy 4|\|d 73h 5u>[0rZ!11!!!1!" [conmcb25> Well I have gone back two hours and he did not say anything specific about us or our game. [conmcb25> But it doesn't hurt to stress OPSEC [Arnelos> learn to read between the lines, man [conmcb25> Learn to distinguish between actualt info and fishing [Arnelos> he was fishing [conmcb25> Im seeing fishing [Arnelos> make no doubt [Arnelos> however, there is at least some suggestion that he knows at least a little [conmcb25> based on some good educted guesses [Arnelos> besides... I think it might be useful to call him out on this one [Arnelos> he CLAIMED to be obtaining the information by a means established as being illicit [Arnelos> such a claim is something we could nail him for [conmcb25> Ok well Im not seeing it [conmcb25> xpost [conmcb25> wheres that one? [Arnelos> lemme look [Arnelos> there's a lot of log to dig through [conmcb25> do you have the time logger on? [Arnelos> no [conmcb25> My logging was off in that chat tonight, is someone "logging it? [conmcb25> o [Kloreep|idle> con: he said he was getting our top 5 & scores from someone [Kloreep|idle> our game's, that is [Kloreep|idle> Not from our perspective specifically [conmcb25> OK I could not find that [conmcb25> And there is a lot to weed thru [conmcb25> which I cant do now [conmcb25> Thats why Im hoping someone is logging [conmcb25> Is someone logging the chat? [E_T> first part of thread posted [E_T> I have a log.... [conmcb25> Can you send it to me or post it please [E_T> but I'm in same as you, con [conmcb25> I would like to fish thru it [E_T> tomorrow [conmcb25> my logging is switched OFF [conmcb25> ttomorrow is fine [Kloreep|idle> [01:54] [Trip> sorry E_T, I was busy admiring our empire which has a lot more cities than Apolytonia does... :yawn: [Kloreep|idle> [01:54] [E_T> Oh, and what year is it? [Kloreep|idle> [01:55] [Trip> doesn't matter which year [Kloreep|idle> [01:55] [Trip> we can go to the year you guys are in [Kloreep|idle> [01:55] [E_T> I was just wondering if your compairing the right years [Kloreep|idle> [01:55] [Trip> yes [Kloreep|idle> [01:56] [Trip> we are a few turns ahead, but backtracking doesn't make much of a difference [conmcb25> I got to be at work in 5 hours and need to get some sleep anyway [Kloreep|idle> [01:56] [E_T> well, your somehow mistaken [Kloreep|idle> [01:56] [Trip> and why is that so [Kloreep|idle> [01:57] [E_T> because, you are and you have no clue as to the things that are going on at this moment [Kloreep|idle> [01:57] [Trip> so sayeth you [Kloreep|idle> [01:57] [Trip> I get scores and top cities list from people in that game [Kloreep|idle> [01:57] [Arnelos> which is pretty clear if he's comparing number of cities... [Kloreep|idle> [01:57] [Trip> I watch what's going on [Kloreep|idle> [01:58] [Trip> 1 city [Kloreep|idle> [01:58] [Trip> maybe 2 soon? [Kloreep|idle> [01:58] [WhiteBandit> hahaha [Kloreep|idle> [01:58] [WhiteBandit> trip, is your empre surrounded by f*cking jungle :P [Kloreep|idle> [01:58] [WhiteBandit> the circumstances of each game are completely different [Kloreep|idle> [01:59] [MasterZen> let him gloat WB, it's compensating for other "deficiencies" [Kloreep|idle> [01:57] [Trip> I get scores and top cities list from people in that game [conmcb25> OK got it [Kloreep|idle> Again, not likely to compromise either game without map info... but we really shouldn't know what's going on in the other game regardless [conmcb25> well E_T when you get a chance send me the log [Arnelos> if anything, we can demand the same info from the other game [E_T> remember, he was wanting to get access to our forum [conmcb25> if this goes anywhere we may need it [conmcb25> n [conmcb25> yes I remember [conmcb25> Remember me telling you Arnelos I did not trust him any farther than I could throw him? [Arnelos> yes [conmcb25> ah well [conmcb25> I need sleep [conmcb25> talk to you all tomorrow [Arnelos> I say we post that quote by Trip in the U.N. forum and ask if we can get scores from the other game. [conmcb25> ha ha [Arnelos> that would be all that is necessary [Arnelos> just politely request that we get scores as well * conmcb25 has quit IRC (Quit: ) [Kloreep|idle> Perhaps just bring up the subject of some public posting of info to see an incredibly rough sketch of how each other's games are progressing [Arnelos> I say we literally just post that quote by Trip and just politely ask that we receive the same information that people in the other game are receiving. We can be quite polite about the subject. [Arnelos> It accomplishes two objectives. [Arnelos> it gets us more information and it merely subtly points out what Trip is up to. [Arnelos> all the while we can just do it as politely as possible. [Arnelos> we'll get what we want and the matter can drop [E_T> part 2 is posted * WIA has joined #c3cisdg * WIA is now known as WIA_playing_pool [E_T> part 3 is up and I HAVE to hit the sack * E_T is now known as E_T[bedtime [Arnelos> E_T - I have an idea... [MasterZen> KILL TEH TRIP [Arnelos> we should pull a similar move with you in the C3C ISDG as we did with you in another game (was that the PTWDG?) [Arnelos> where you "aren't an active member" of our team [Arnelos> which, for the most part, is true [Arnelos> but is not in some very critical ways [Arnelos> point is... the more people like Trip believe that you have little to no role in the C3C game, the better [Arnelos> I like what that brings out in Trip [Kloreep|idle> Well, good night [Arnelos> cya

	30-04-2004 22:57									#7
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The other thing to note is that Trip has (since he is a consul at the Apoly PtWISDG) E_T's spreadsheets.

Were are assuming he is using them for this game with CDG.

I dont think we can really do naything about that but I just want to stress the point I made in the Classified Information-What we need to know thread thread. DO NOT SHARE WHAT THIS TEAM DEVELOPS WITH OTHER TEAMS.

Why we think Trip is using those spreadsheets are located in this thread. Link to Intell Ministry Thread And some of the statements Trip made in the above chats more or less just confirm that.

From now on BEWARE of Trip. He is not to be trusted, please do not share any information with him from this game. NOTHING. NADA.

Thanks

	30-04-2004 23:47									#8
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I'm serious about this idea:

quote: [Arnelos> I say we post that quote by Trip in the U.N. forum and ask if we can get scores from the other game. [Arnelos> that would be all that is necessary [Arnelos> just politely request that we get scores as well [Arnelos> I say we literally just post that quote by Trip and just politely ask that we receive the same information that people in the other game are receiving. We can be quite polite about the subject. [Arnelos> It accomplishes two objectives. [Arnelos> it gets us more information and it merely subtly points out what Trip is up to. [Arnelos> all the while we can just do it as politely as possible. [Arnelos> we'll get what we want and the matter can drop

	01-05-2004 00:09									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Hmmm.... I see your point Arnelos. One thing to be careful of. Trip may be baiting us to do just that - and appear as 'whiners' in this game as well.

NOW - don't get me wrong. I don't think for an instance that we are whiners. We believe in fair play and stand up for that principle. But I just get a sense that Trip may be up to something. Trying to start some controversy and involve Apolyton. Maybe not - but I do have a suspicion.

	01-05-2004 00:32									#10
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May I suggest that con change his naming format?

I just had a lookie at the last few turn reports.

Just looking at the files it would be exceedingly simple for someone to know that con is posting/playing, and given that they are...for lack of a better word, STANDARD to what one would THINK such files would be named, it isn't exactly beyond the realm of possibility that such a temptation would be too difficult for some people to pass up.

I mean, I post for this pic all the time:


Given THAT, any one of you could then guess the link for, say the pottery pic, or the one with MrWIA and the sheep. Perhaps date + F11, etc just isn't the smartest naming procedure for this game.

Hell, it's a standard link with the end member#_filename.***

You can get the member number via the profile button even. For instance GK is 17527.

It would take little time for me to go about guessing file names in his upload if I cared to.

That said, I think we are spending WAY too much time on this.

Who cares?

Why do we care what Trip knows, what was the purpose behind even DISCUSSING this with him? Shoulda been ignored or dismissed IMO. That's another game, we don't care about it, don't want info, and don't care what happens. We are in THIS game.

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 01-05-2004 at 00:45

	01-05-2004 00:39									#11
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx May I suggest that con change his naming format? I just had a lookie at the last few turn reports. Just looking at the files it would be exceedingly simple for someone to know that con is posting/playing, and given that they are...for lack of a better word, STANDARD to what one would THINK such files would be named, it isn't exactly beyond the realm of possibility that such a temptation would be too difficult for some people to pass up. That said, I think we are spending WAY too much time on this. Who cares? Why do we care what Trip knows, what was the purpose behind even DISCUSSING this with him? Shoulda been ignored or dismissed IMO. That's another game, we don't care about it, don't want info, and don't care what happens. We are in THIS game.

Uno, you lost me what does the names of threads in a secure forum have to do with this??????

Honestly I do not understand.

On the Trip issue, we think he is passing info FROM THIS GAME on ot others and possibly to people in this game.

I agree we are spending a lot of time on this, and probably should just determine a course of action and move on.

Edit, ah OK on the pictures, I get it, but can someone access pictures I upload if they dont have the link? Is that really a problem?

If so no matter what we name them it could be a possible security leak. The other teams know who are consuls are.

	01-05-2004 00:47									#12
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I'm saying it's a STANDARD link.http: //apolyton.net /upload /view.php? file=member#_filename.*** (minus spaces, and file type at the end. JPG for this purpose most likely.

By naming your pictures yearf11, yearF8, etc, anyone with an understanding of the above can guess at it. Given the turn sent thread, I am sure the year is always known and people would know to get the new pic.

The member # is accessed by the profile button.

So, since I looked up Gk's member # in testing, let's just start taking guesses and see if I cant hit his city map, huh? (I haven't looked at it yet. Honest.) I choose GK because AFAIK he's not an official in any other game and the chance I hit some other game's info is therefore slight... I hope.





And just in case he's lazy like ME...

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 01-05-2004 at 00:54

	01-05-2004 00:51									#13
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx May I suggest that con change his naming format? I just had a lookie at the last few turn reports. Just looking at the files it would be exceedingly simple for someone to know that con is posting/playing, and given that they are...for lack of a better word, STANDARD to what one would THINK such files would be named, it isn't exactly beyond the realm of possibility that such a temptation would be too difficult for some people to pass up.

Yeah, we addressed this in GoW and named all our uploaded screenshots names like "Virus.jpg", "networm.jpg," and "screwtogasforscrewingourtradedeal.jpg".

	01-05-2004 00:55									#14
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As you see, STANDARD names for uploads are dangerous.

I tried:

Cities
cityplacement
cities1
cityplacement1
untitled

Nothing out of the ordinary...

	01-05-2004 00:59									#15
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So, what I am saying is put a password in front of your uploads. Then no one can GUESS Them without being told what that is.

THEN we would know that someone is GIVING the info away.

As it is now, it took me 5 minutes to GUESS what GK had named his city map. Just think of that potential.

	01-05-2004 01:05									#16
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Yes, this was what I was afraid of.

E_T

	01-05-2004 01:06									#17
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So, now you know the format for the links, again with my picture:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...8_Grapevine.JPG

With that, any of you could see the typical names you'ld expect, such as messenger, MrWIA, Pottery, Ivory, Toga, terracotta, etc. Things that make sense I would name the pics in the paper.

I prefer to think people are honest enough not to resort to such things, but then, perhaps not.

Slap a 2147 or other random number in front of your filename. That should take care of it. Unless there is a spy in our midst. Which I highly doubt.

Last edited by UnOrthOdOx on 01-05-2004 at 01:23

	01-05-2004 01:20									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Lets do this:

1) All files that are uploaded for this game (with sensitive Information), HAVE to have a "password" as part of the filename.
2) the "password" will be standardized as follows "password_filename.ext"
3) this "Password" setup will ONLY be used for this game. We might change this password when we get to game #2.

Suggestions for this standardized password:
doughnut
goober
litehops (playing with hoplite spelling)

Either way, we need to start Implementing this as soon as possible.

E_T

	01-05-2004 01:24									#19
	Remove this text

A standardized password could then be used in standardized guessing if found.

I think UnO's suggestion of throwing random gibberish at the end will work fine. (And having it at the end makes the files name-sort as if the "password" was not there. )

So:

filename_password.ext

Where password is just random letters or numbers

	01-05-2004 01:27									#20
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I will say that if this stops it, I will have lost all respect for one member of poly...

* UnOrthOdOx goes to check his upload for any pics of all games thusly names 'standardly'

	01-05-2004 01:27									#21
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx So, now you know the format for the links, again with my picture: http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...8_Grapevine.JPG With that, any of you could see the typical names you'ld expect, such as messenger, MrWIA, Pottery, Ivory, Toga, terracotta, etc. Things that make sense I would name the pics in the paper. I prefer to think people are honest enough not to resort to such things, but then, perhaps not. Slap a 2147 or other random number in front of your filename. That should take care of it.

Holy $hit

I had no idea.

Dam good catch UnO, we ought to make you the Minister of Secret Police

*con groans as he now realizes he has to change ALL those names and redo his upload page and turn threads, arrrrrrrrrgh*

You know this sucks, I cant believe people will do this.

Now that I suspect Trip of doing it, Ill never be able to talk to him in the same way again.

	01-05-2004 01:30									#22
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Ill redo the last two turn threads by this evening

Im going to delete the links NOW and then re-upload later.

I still have the pics on my hardrive so Ill change it to gibberish names for a password and re-upload.

Oct_X or KLO you are playing the save tonight, this is going to take me some time.
I do have to do some work today.

	01-05-2004 01:42									#23
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Not sure that's neccessary con.

What's done is done. Don't worry about the past so much, just go forward from here.

	01-05-2004 01:44									#24
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The last two turns have been deleted.

Ill reupload them this evening with a gibberish password attachment.

I believe the random one is the one we ought to use, I think it would be MUCH harder to stumble across.

KLO if you get a chance post about this somewhere, were it will be readily accessible the whole game.

Maybe the INTELL thread, where-ever you think its appropriate.

Thanks

This just makes me sick.

Thanks UnO but I already did it, he may not have found all of them and he may not have found one or the other turns yet.

30 minutes or so tonight and it will be squared away.

I just wont have the time to do that and do all the screenshots from tonights turn.

This is a lessen WELL LEARNED, and especially now. At least this did not happen while we were in a war with CGN in game 2.

Man this really pisses me off on one hand and really makes me sick on the other.

	01-05-2004 01:51									#25
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Remember, it might NOT be Trip who is possibly doing this, it very well could be someone else.

I think I'll have a private chat with Miccofl about this, sometime today.

E_T

	01-05-2004 01:53									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Anyone consider asking Trip straight up?

I volunteer if the team wishes to.


Just a thought, the mods should be able to get IP's that are accessing those pages directly...

	01-05-2004 02:00									#27
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my guess it will come up in chat this evening.

Knowing Arnelos like I do if he is around he will interrogate Trip without him knowing it of course.



I dunno guys, Im a tad bit upset about this right now and usually unless I absoulutely have to, making a decision when Im pissed off is not a good idea.

Ill talk to you all in chat tonight.

Right now I have to get back to work.

	01-05-2004 02:03									#28
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quote: Dam good catch UnO, we ought to make you the Minister of Secret Police

Glad I was actually around looking today.

I'ld noticed the pattern before doing the paper, and I was just able to type them in after noticing the pattern. Never really thought someone would use such info in such a way, I still prefer to think it is not so.

Remember, if it IS just the scores and the city screen, all I've seen referenced, it very well could be being given to him by another team in this game.

	01-05-2004 02:10									#29
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You should make a big picture that says FUQ Cheater and upload it as the next 'standard' name.

	01-05-2004 02:31									#30
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quote: Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx You should make a big picture that says FUQ Cheater and upload it as the next 'standard' name.

You are a sick SOB, thats why I love ya UnO