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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:35
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The idea was brought up in the chatroom about a surgical strike upon GWT's FP city Ruhrpott in a timeframe of about 15 turns.
We get Astronomy in 3 more turns, and Navigation would take us 7 (or fewer) at our current pace of ~35 GPT. This gives us 10 turns to get the necessary techs to cross the ocean. It will take 4 turns from a sea tile stationing point near Incensity to a landing site near Ruhrpott. And the really exciting thing is that until GWT gets Astronomy, a Galley has to be fortified on a single exact tile in order to spot our landing force before it can land its payload. That means the chances of GWT seeing us are very slim.
I have included a map of the invasion here. The white and green dots are the points at which our navy would pass through each turn (1 through 4 after getting Navigation). The yellow shaded area is the visibility of a forted GWT Galley - the main concern would be a GWT Galley forted at point 4, as it would be able to see our fleet at point 3. Point 4 is also the final debarkation point for our invasion force, and we then land the Knights 6 of that tile (4-4 of Ruhrpott) at the debarkation point. The following turn (whatever survives) can then attack Ruhrpott and hopefully capture and raze the city.
An important part of the plan is getting CGN to hold out in some capacity for another ~15 turns so that we can be assured that GWT won't have their main army back defending the area. While GWT is still busy with CGN we can be relatively sure that the majority of GWT's army will be tied up elsewhere. It's a long way to Ruhrpott from the front. 18 or 21 Knights on a single turn when they aren't expecting it should be a death blow.
We currently have 12 Knights and 4 Galleys capable of reaching the Incensity jumping point within a reasonable amount of time. If we wish to land, say, 21 Knights on 7 Caravels this will require us to build 9 more Horsemen and 3 Caravels, and upgrade those 9 Horsemen at 80g each and our current 4 Galleys at 20g each for a total of 800g. That's a total sum of 120 shields in our coastal cities (HoD, Hispanica and Inc can handle this pretty easily) and 270 shields in our land cities with Barracks (likewise, just Mingapulco and Bananatopia can do this with ease).
The gold is a steep cost to foot, but I believe we can handle it with full support from CGN and CFC. We can cut out 1 Caravel in the group and reduce the costs by 260g down to only 540g, but still with 18 Knights.
With GWT getting Leo's (will confirm yea or nay next turn) and their economy being far beyond our own, myself and others in the chatroom feel that this may be our best shot at delivering a crippling blow on GWT before they can get their army back to Ruhrpott to stop us.
Obviously there is a certain amount of risk involved. 18-21 Knights and 6-7 Caravels would be our entire mobile force and our entire navy. If the operation fails we will have lost most if not all of those forces. We lose some production in the few cities we dedicate to preparing the extra forces for this operation. And we will spend a lot of gold to do it.
However, I feel the potential gains are far greater than the potential losses. So we lose several hundred gold and our mobile army... we will have taken a lot of GWT down with us and given the Germans a definite fright about what else we might have cooking. GWT is still quite a ways from being able to invade us (still don't even have Theology yet) and the resources we would expend on this operation really wouldn't be all that much considering what GWT can generate once they have Leo's under their control.
I realize this is a rather unorthodox plan, and many of you may be thinking "WTF?" at first, but try to keep an open mind. If you've read my other thread on GWT's potential you should be able to see how strong they can become. They will only get stronger. E_T says that we will get stronger as well, and that us getting Leo's was a long shot anyways... well that's true. But GWT's capabilities will be far beyond our own, even a long ways into the future. They will likely hold a very large advantage up until the end of our GA... I don't believe we have that long.
Everyone please weigh in on this issue, as this is a very important issue that we must decide upon promptly!
If there is support then I will start an official poll soon. We will likely have to hold the next turn that comes our way to get this sorted out.
Additionally, if you would like to help test out how this fateful invasion might turn out, please refer to the simulation, which you can find here.
Last edited by Trip on 04-05-2004 at 12:40
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Trip
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Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Master Zen
well first of all, the only person who had any illusions on getting Leo's was YOU Trip, it was quite obvious that any team with even a remotely decent skill at playing Civ would've vied for that wonder given the huge advantage they had over us in getting it. |
E_T made plans for building it. So obviously not EVERYONE was COMPLETELY resigned to the fact that we would not get it. Again, I too thought it was unlikely that we would get it, but I didn't believe GWT would get it so soon.
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Anyway, I shudder to think what would happen if we keep CGN alive, we trash Rhurpott, and then they get a leader and build their FP again. All in all, the only result of this is that we'll be getting our ass invaded shortly afterwards. |
There's really not much we can do about that, except try to time things so that the major fighting with CGN ends at a certain point (eliminating chances for leaders) and then we land before GWT's army can return. A very thin margin of error. It's better to risk hitting early and them getting another leader (still unlikely... more unlikely than GWT getting their army back and being able to stop our landing anyways...).
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REGARDLESS of this though, I think the plan is sound, but it needs far more discussion before we even begin to implement it. |
Well, we can't really hold the turns indefinitely. CFC seems to be holding for a bit, and I asked miccofl to hold CGN's turn for 24 hours. We can do so with ours as well. GWT usually takes about a day by themselves anyways. That's quite a bit of time before the next turn has to be shipped off.
The main issue is that if we wish to begin implimenting this plan, we need to do so next turn. Every turn we wait directly translates to a turn delay.
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E_T
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Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Trip
Just got done talking with Donovan Zoi from CFC. If necessary, they can supply up to 800g in the next 10 turns! Along with CGN's financial help we can probably build as many Horsemen or Galleys as we want to have ready for this.
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please post the chat logs
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E_T and I have been looking at further increases in the amount of resources to pour into this. Currently, from what I can tell, we can get 8 Caravels and 1 Galley into the fray, providing 26 cargo space in the initial landing. With 1 Settler (which would be used to build a city, allowing our Knights a place to heal or retreat from quickly) that allows enough space for 25 Knights. That's 12 Knights that need to be upgraded (1 Knight can be completed in Banana next turn) for a total of 960 gold. 7 Galley upgrades would be another 140 gold for a total of 1100. We should be able to foot this bill easily.
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I have been looking at seeing what I can do to get things set up for this. I have also been looking at the implications, both economically and others, for the future.
Trip has been having dreams of pillaging and rampaging around the chatroom....
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We have enough Barracks cities to get out enough Horsemen and more that need to be upgraded. The main limiting factor is boats... |
More on that later....
E_T
Last edited by E_T on 04-05-2004 at 11:56
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Apolyton Time is 00:35. |
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04-05-2004 06:29
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