12-05-2004 21:39									#181
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Okay...........then how do you account for the fact that the catholic canonisation process did not start until the 10th century AD with the canonisation of Saint Ulrich? Constantine must have been amazingly influential to cause something to happen 6 or 700 years after his death.......

I already concede defeat. There were no conspiracies in the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine would never touch the bible because it was sacred to him. Every thing he did was for the good of his people. Never for personal power or political gain. It's just not in his nature.

	13-05-2004 03:44									#182
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Elok, My point is that there were no saints in the christian religion prior to men putting them there. Prophets are not the same as Saints. Moses was a Prophet but not a Saint.

As many wives as he had I should say NOT!

	13-05-2004 05:02									#183
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus I already concede defeat. There were no conspiracies in the Roman Empire. Emperor Constantine would never touch the bible because it was sacred to him. Every thing he did was for the good of his people. Never for personal power or political gain. It's just not in his nature.

I think the point that has been made to you over and over is not this nonsense but that Constantine's motives for ending the persecution were cynical and after unbanning christianity he didn't take much interest in church affairs, certainly not theology.

I'd also like to know how you link "Roman" catholic church to your theory since this term was not used to describe Western catholicism until the 17th century and as a term of abuse by protestants>

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm

As jon Miller posted, go and do some basic research.

	13-05-2004 06:34									#184
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse I think the point that has been made to you over and over is not this nonsense but that Constantine's motives for ending the persecution were cynical and after unbanning christianity he didn't take much interest in church affairs, certainly not theology.

There is good evidence that Constantine encouraged the early church leaders to come togertner to unite the disparate factions of Christianity. I don't see how such a move could be considered cynical, and it does indicate that he had some interest in church affairs. I don't think there is much evidence that he meddled in them though. He allowed himself to be baptised only on his deathbed. I don't know if that was a cynical move or if he thought that the Roman Empire wasn't yet ready to accept a Christian as a head of state.

quote: I'd also like to know how you link "Roman" catholic church to your theory since this term was not used to describe Western catholicism until the 17th century and as a term of abuse by protestants> http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13121a.htm As jon Miller posted, go and do some basic research.

Once again, the word catholic translates roughly into "universal", and as such when referring to Christianity can be used as an abstract concept referring to the enitre Christian faith including all of it's various churches. I believe that the idea of a "Catholic" church first appeared in the basic creeds which declare the fundamentals of Christian faith. These creeds were written before the bishops of Rome claimed hegemony over the entire Christian movement and were not even written in Rome.
Let me further add that in contradiction to the idea put forth in the article you have linked, Anglicans do not consider the Catholic church seperated into the Roman, Greek and Anglican divisions, but instead include all the other denominations as well. We define the Catholic church as literally "wherever two or three are gathered...."

	13-05-2004 06:50									#185
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I'm basing my points about Constantine on a documentary I saw recently debunking his religious significance.

There is no doubt that at the political level he encouraged the establishment of Christianity as an official and eventually "the" official religion of the empire and that this had a major effect on the development of christianity.

	13-05-2004 16:19									#186
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quote: Originally posted by Pax Africanus Elok, My point is that there were no saints in the christian religion prior to men putting them there. Prophets are not the same as Saints. Moses was a Prophet but not a Saint.

And there were no Nobel Prize winners in America before Nobel. Lousy Swedish SOB corrupting American culture!