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Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 04:37 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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The undefeatable infantry unit... Tired of ads?

Hey all. I was in a large map builder style game with 5 other opponents. I needed two things from the egyptians, coal and oil.

There was one city near my borders that had both. Realizing that I had too big of a military, I sent out units from every inner city to fight a war.

Now, I happened to be on Warlord at the time. Here's what happened.

I took about 10 guerillas and 10 infantry straight to the city with oil and coal. After killing 3 spearmen I took the city. Then, I took another 5 guerillas and 5 infantry and took another nearby city.

Right about then they destroyed the road to my one source of Iron. So, quicky I killed the lone longbowman with an infantry from the second city.

Then I noticed a mass invasion of, get this, longbowman! There were stacks of them all over my SE corner. After I took back the Iron, they moved around my city to a square adjacent to the iron. I figured they wanted to make sure that I had no iron. So, I moved about 10 infantry onto the Iron.

The next turn, they attacked the city they had just gone around. There was one infantry defending the city. Of course, not having any railroads due to the loss of iron, it would be 2 turns before I could get more units in there.

I then watched and laughed as in one turn they attacked with 25 longbowman, one at a time. The first one caused my infantry unit to become veteran. On the fourth he was elite. By the 25th attack, he was wounded, but alive.

On the next turn, about 25 more attacked. This time he went all the way down to one red square left on his health bar. I was actuallly quite worried. But then the last longbowman fell, and I laughed.

It just goes to show how powerfull a defender an infantry unit can be against a middle ages army. I had no idea that one infantry could hold out that well against such a huge onslaught of longbowmen.

Well, I hope you enjoyed my little story,
Dan O.

Oh, BTW, I had Tzun Tzu's War Acadamy, so the city had a barracks in it. Still, it's quite a feat!

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 05:20 Visit Dis's homepage!
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I'm sure he could have defeated it if he was using a spearman.

Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 05:26 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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You mean, if the Egyptians used spearmen?

Or do you mean, if I used spearmen?

Off course if I had a lone spearman the city would be toast.

What wouldn't make sense is if the egyptians used spearmen. They have an attack of one.

Or are you being sarcastic?

Please clarify,
Thanks,
Dan O.

Theseus is offline Theseus

Emperor
The warmonger formerly known as rpodos. Gathering Storm! Apolyton Spirit!!
Apr 2002
time: 00:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 07:59
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Sarcastic, as in Spearmen beating Tanks.

Antrine is offline Antrine
Prince

May 2003
time: 05:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 08:09
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Tired of ads?

I guess it pays to upgrade Longbowman, that is if they had that option. Did you count 25 or did simply seem like 25? For I would hope for different results with those numbers.

Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 10:48 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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I counted at least 25 on the first one. On the second wave I lost count, but it seemed to be close to that.

Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 10:50 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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Tired of ads?

I guess I'll have to check out the game agian sometime. The population may have had something to do with it, it was 11. Also, It may or may not have been on hills, I'll have to check.

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 11:16 Visit Dis's homepage!
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well either way this is a good thing right?

Technology finally held out against large numbers of inferior troops.

That's what we've been asking for all along.

Although I never get those kinds of results . If anything over 4 units attack me, I'm usually going to lose the unit, no matter what it is.

Aeson is offline Aeson
Emperor
orangesoda
Nov 2001
time: 22:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 11:43
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LB should have won... Infantry would have been crushed either by the weight of the pile of Arrows, and/or by their shell casings!

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 19:58 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Clear example of the advantage of having a weapon with greater range.

spy14 is offline spy14
Prince
Birmingham
Nov 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 21:50
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Nice to see a believable result for once!

Try using your invincible infantryman to attack an emeny Pikeman. He'll probably lose

Mace is offline Mace
Warlord
Trade Empire of the Carthaginians
Nov 2003
time: 23:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 22:24
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If that had been my city, my lone infantry would have been defeated by, oh, about the first 9 or 10 longbowmen. hehe
That's just the kind of civ3 luck I have lately...

Spearmen beating tanks, yes.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:35
  Old Post 05-05-2004 23:05
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Nice story!

When I saw the thread title, I was rather expecting a rant now how it's impossible to take out Inf fortified in metropoleis on hills with Cav ...

Flandrien is offline Flandrien
King
Belgium
May 2000
time: 06:35
  Old Post 06-05-2004 15:53
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Did the longbows attack across a river ?

Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 06-05-2004 18:12 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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I found out why they had such a difficult time. The city was built on hilly terrain. Anyone have any idea how much of a defensive bonus my infantry unit had?

Here is a map:

Attachment: map of longbow attack.jpg
This has been downloaded 324 time(s).

Mace is offline Mace
Warlord
Trade Empire of the Carthaginians
Nov 2003
time: 23:35
  Old Post 06-05-2004 22:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Melboz99
I found out why they had such a difficult time. The city was built on hilly terrain. Anyone have any idea how much of a defensive bonus my infantry unit had?

Here is a map:


50% bonus I believe...

Even so, with my Civ3 luck, if that had been *my* infantryman fortified in a city on a hill, it would have taken, oh, about the first 12-13 longbowmen to kill him.

The other day my full strength Vet Swordsman lost to a single regular Archer unfortified in a plain.
Spearmen defeating tanks, indeed...

spy14 is offline spy14
Prince
Birmingham
Nov 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 06-05-2004 22:39
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50% for the hill + 50-100% depending on city/metropolis

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 01:32
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+25% for fortified.

Solomwi is offline Solomwi

King
Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 04:36
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Still, that's a defense of, what, 22.5 in a city?

That gives a LB roughly 15% chance of winning, so on average every other LB should have knocked off one HP. Accounting for elite status, it's still quite a feat for that lone infantry unit to hold out against 25 longbow units.

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 10:02
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Hill + City + Fortified = 125% bonus, so yes 22.5 defence. As Solomwi said, pretty unlikley win.

I'm sure some guru can come up with the exact probability, but perhaps a reasonable approximation would be to pit a 75 hit point LB (roughly equivalent to 25 regular LB) against an elite Infantry (which it was eventually due to promotions). The chances of the LB losing would be small indeed.

Rasputin is offline Rasputin

Deity
Brisbane
May 1999
time: 15:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 11:18 Visit Rasputin<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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bout time an infantry unit held off the bowman...

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 11:54 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Next up: Spearman beats tank... on the attack!

Rasputin is offline Rasputin

Deity
Brisbane
May 1999
time: 15:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 12:24 Visit Rasputin<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/lifer-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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now that would be fun to see... as long as it not during one of my games....

Aqualung71 is offline Aqualung71
Emperor
Lord Desolator of the Desolation Row, C3CDG
Oct 2002
time: 12:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 12:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Smiley
Next up: Spearman beats tank... on the attack!


It's got a better chance on defence!

Dis is offline Dis
Emperor
Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 12:54 Visit Dis's homepage!
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now for the important issue.

Your city placement!! (I was glancing at your minimap) Is that ICS or what?

Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 18:53 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
now for the important issue.

Your city placement!! (I was glancing at your minimap) Is that ICS or what?


You got it! This was my first game with ICS. Unfortunatley, the game placed 3 AI on the same continent with me, and only two on the other continent.

I really don't understand why it does that! There should always be an equal amount of players on equal sized continents!

Anyway, enough ranting. Around 500 AD I ran out of space. I ran into the Egyptians to my SE, the Byzantines to my NE, and the ocean in all other directions.

I am now playing a game where I modified the map. I tried to place all the players equally spaced apart on equal sized continents. What I accidentally did was place two players a little close together north of me, and I missed one of the player starting locations, so two of the players were too close on the other continent. Anyway, it's not like they were closer than the original markers, it's just that they were less than equally spaced apart.

What did I end up with? At about 600 AD I ran out room, except for some turndra to my south. Thinking about it now, I really should have settled down there, there were quite a lot of resouces in that tundra. Now it's full of Indians and Koreans,

Anyway, total amount of cities, large map, continents, 60% water, 600 AD was just over 100!

It's amazing what using ICS has done to improve my games! I was only behind in the tech race for half of the ancient era, and I'm on Regent! Right now, it's 1060 AD, and I am about 6 techs away from the industrial ages, getting techs about every 4 turns, with a profit of 33gpt.

This is quite an achievement for me. I used to struggle on regent until well into the middle ages. I've had it easy ever since the ancient era. Also, even on easier diff levels I've never been this advanced at 1000 AD.

Oh, get this, my population is a whopping 23,840,000! That's using a land area of 106,200 square miles.

Well, I'm having a great time with ICS. It does kind of stink later on when your biggest city is only a 14, but 90% of the game is played in the early ages, when you can't grow beyond 12 anyway.

Dan O.

Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 19:03 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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I just did a quick calculation on the population and land area. It seems that I have 224.5 people per square mile. That's quite a number considering what the average is for the USA.

Okay, I just googled it, and couldn't find an average for the whole US, but I found one for my state, Illinois. The average for Illinois is 205.6 persons per square mile.

Dan O.

spy14 is offline spy14
Prince
Birmingham
Nov 2001
time: 05:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 21:42
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Surely the average for California or somesuch would be greater than Illinois?

Melboz99 is offline Melboz99
Prince
Rockford, Illinois, USA
May 2000
time: 23:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 22:23 Visit Melboz99's homepage!
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As of 1990, California had a population density of 190.8. That is the same year I took the Illinois statistic from. Perhaps it's changed by now, yet I doubt it has changed by much. California has a lot of mountains and desert that are pretty low in population densitities.

Illinois has a lot of cornfield, true, but we have countless small towns, as well as Chicago, Pioria, and Rockford. Rockford is the second largest metropoliton area at about 300,000. Pioria is pretty close, we passed them up about 15-20 years ago, I believe. Chicago, of course, is in the millions. I believe the metropolotin area for Chicago is something like 8 million.

As far as I know, California has only 3 major metropolotin areas, LA, Sanfransico, and Sandiago. But, the state is nearly three times the size of Illinois (Califonia is ~150,000sqmi, Illinois is ~55,0000sqmi)

Just thought I'd get that info for you. BTW, you can find all the stats here: http://www.census.gov/population/ce.../90den_stco.txt

The Emperor Fabulous is offline The Emperor Fabulous
Warlord
Apolyton's Resident Actor-in-Training
Aug 1999
time: 00:35
  Old Post 07-05-2004 23:20
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Woah dude...what's up with the city locations on your inset map?

 
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