05-05-2004 13:08									#1
	Questions about game setup and unit upgrades Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have 2 questions:

1) Game setup: In Civ3, it is possible to start games on a random map, but with defined civilizations. Makes up for great epic games, for example if you limit your game to Civs of a certain era. In CtP2, there's no such option, or not that I know of, and so you end up with a game with the unevitable Hittites or Sumerians among Americans and French. You get the idea. Not that civs in CtP2 would be as different as they are in Civ3, but anyway, it would feel better if you had the choice. Scenarios are out, of course, as we're talking random maps. Is there an easy way to achieve this (like editing a text file for the game setup)?

2) Unit upgrades. Greatly miss this feature in CtP2. I heard there is a mod, which achieves this (Updater2 or somesuch like this). I dl'd and installed it, but it wouldn't run properly, because it messes up my strings. Is there a way to get it working, and if yes, how does it generally work?

Thanks in advance.

	05-05-2004 22:50									#2
	Re: Questions about game setup and unit upgrades Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph 1) Game setup: In Civ3, it is possible to start games on a random map, but with defined civilizations. Makes up for great epic games, for example if you limit your game to Civs of a certain era. In CtP2, there's no such option, or not that I know of, and so you end up with a game with the unevitable Hittites or Sumerians among Americans and French. You get the idea. Not that civs in CtP2 would be as different as they are in Civ3, but anyway, it would feel better if you had the choice. Scenarios are out, of course, as we're talking random maps. Is there an easy way to achieve this (like editing a text file for the game setup)?

There are two possibilities you can just remove those civs you don't like and leave lets say eight in if you want to play with eight players. Or better and less laborious, you can start a LAN game, with dynaamic join enabled, so that you can start it alone without any other human players. Of course I would prefer a non random civ option like this in single player, too, but the source code project isn't so far.

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph 2) Unit upgrades. Greatly miss this feature in CtP2. I heard there is a mod, which achieves this (Updater2 or somesuch like this). I dl'd and installed it, but it wouldn't run properly, because it messes up my strings. Is there a way to get it working, and if yes, how does it generally work?

About the generally working think I cannot tell you much, because I never used it on my setup, probybly Tamerlin or Peter know more about it. But from that you told it sounds like you started a game then you added it and you played on. So I guess you got messages like Nyon instead of a descriptive text. In that case you have to /reloadslic, to fix the strings and to make it work at all, you don't need to do it if you start a new game. To /reloadslic just open the chat window by typing the apostrophe key (') and enter: /reloadslic

-Martin

	06-05-2004 03:01									#3
	Re: Questions about game setup and unit upgrades Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph 2) Unit upgrades. Greatly miss this feature in CtP2. I heard there is a mod, which achieves this (Updater2 or somesuch like this). I dl'd and installed it, but it wouldn't run properly, because it messes up my strings. Is there a way to get it working, and if yes, how does it generally work?

Sir Ralph, the Updater is made for the SAP2, this means the SAP2 should be installed and that you have to start a SAP2 game through ModSwapper. I have included a Readme file that is explaining how the mod should be installed. There are some strings to copy into your language folder and IMO you have some errors because the said strings are missing.

The Readme included in the download details how the mod is working, you will see it is very simple.

I have prepared a "Vanilla" CtP2 version that can be used with any Playtest build and I will post it as soon as I have tested it.

	06-05-2004 14:19									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Thanks both of you.

How do I remove civs from the game? Which file(s) would I have to edit? Just checking, because if it's too complicated, I would go with the LAN game option.

The updater works now fine , the /reloadslic command Martin gave me worked well. The problem was, that I applied it for a running game and didn't start a new one. It's my first CtP2 game since almost 2 years and the first time I try out the SAP2. I'm having a good time, although I noticed, that I forgot a lot. May be I will translate the strings over weekend, so you can add a German version.

	06-05-2004 15:01									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Another question I have:

If I'm playing a modded game and want to start CtP2 just to load the game (i.e. not to start a new one), do I have to run it also through the modswapper, or will the original game do it too? With other words, are the scripts and files of the mod part of the savegame or not?

	06-05-2004 16:24									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Thanks both of you.

You are welcomed...

quote: The updater works now fine , the /reloadslic command Martin gave me worked well. The problem was, that I applied it for a running game and didn't start a new one. It's my first CtP2 game since almost 2 years and the first time I try out the SAP2. I'm having a good time, although I noticed, that I forgot a lot.

The SAP2 is my favorite mod because it does not change the original concepts of the game I found very good and entertaining.

quote: May be I will translate the strings over weekend, so you can add a German version.

It would be great!

quote: If I'm playing a modded game and want to start CtP2 just to load the game (i.e. not to start a new one), do I have to run it also through the modswapper, or will the original game do it too? With other words, are the scripts and files of the mod part of the savegame or not?

As far as I know, you can run the game through the regular executable and load a modded game once you have saved a game you started through ModSwapper. You should nonetheless wait for a modder to confirm it...

	06-05-2004 16:53									#7
	Got spare money?

quote: If I'm playing a modded game and want to start CtP2 just to load the game (i.e. not to start a new one), do I have to run it also through the modswapper, or will the original game do it too? With other words, are the scripts and files of the mod part of the savegame or not?

To swap mods you only need to run Modswapper once and then save & exit (or launch). If you intend to resume a modded savegame, then make sure CtP2 is setup (either look in gamefile.txt or launch directly with modswapper) to use that mod. Im certain the save file doesnt contain all modded info, if any.

Someone could explain it better but basically all modswapper does is save a different gamefile.txt in ctp2_data\default\gamedata and copies the original one, so the game is ready to use different files each time you save with modswapper. If you look in gamefile.txt each time you load a different mod its easy to understand.

	06-05-2004 17:10									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Thanks. Not that it would be much of an issue. Starting it through the modswapper won't hurt in any case, so I will just replace the CtP2 link in my start menu with the modswapper link, and I'm done.

Tamerlin: If I succeed with the translation, I will post the translated section in this thread, so look out for it here.

	06-05-2004 17:12									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Tamerlin: If I succeed with the translation, I will post the translated section in this thread, so look out for it here.

OK, I will!

Beware of the sentences' length, you will certainly have to shorten some of them if you want them to fit into the CtP2 windows. As far as I can remember I had to reduce at least one sentence for the French version.

	06-05-2004 18:51									#10
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Are you using the version of Unit Updater that upgrades the units only when you complete the enable advance or the Unit Updater that allows upgrades any time after you complete the enable advance?

There are pros and cons to both.
The ability to upgrade any time after to have the enable advance is more realistic, but when you have only one chance to upgrade, you have to give more thought to planning. (something that I prefer from a gameplay standpoint, so I use the single-chance upgrade option in Cradle)

I'm just curious for opinions on this...

	06-05-2004 19:04									#11
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by hexagonian Are you using the version of Unit Updater that upgrades the units only when you complete the enable advance or the Unit Updater that allows upgrades any time after you complete the enable advance? There are pros and cons to both. The ability to upgrade any time after to have the enable advance is more realistic, but when you have only one chance to upgrade, you have to give more thought to planning. (something that I prefer from a gameplay standpoint, so I use the single-chance upgrade option in Cradle) I'm just curious for opinions on this...

Shortly after I adapted the original Updater (one opportunity to upgrade only) for the SAP2, Peter finished working on the Updater2 which allows you to upgrade your units after the initial turn of the discovery. The version that can be found in the Directory is the Updater2 and for the original game I am using the Updater2.

Though I understand the challenge behind the "one opportunity to upgrade" version, I prefer the Updater2 because it is more flexible and because one of the main goal, as far as I am concerned, is to remove something I consider as a real pain: having to upgrade manually a bunch of obsolete units spread on the map. Something I find almost as boring as moving and giving a task to workers in Civ3.

	06-05-2004 19:05									#12
	Got spare money?

I'm using the Updater2 from the directory, the one that uses the "Sleep" command.

I'm happy with it as it is, even though the upgrades are made very expensive. When I used it first timev around 500BC (just had discovered gunpowder), upgrading my (very small!) army took all I had saved until this time (~25000 gold). But then, in Civ3 upgrades are too cheap by default, even though it has been raised in Conquests and is changeable in the editor.

	06-05-2004 19:36									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin quote: May be I will translate the strings over weekend, so you can add a German version. It would be great!

Are we talking about the same strings I translated here?

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph How do I remove civs from the game? Which file(s) would I have to edit? Just checking, because if it's too complicated, I would go with the LAN game option.

If it gets to complicated for you, you have to edit civilisation.txt in your ..\ctp2_data\default\gamedata\ folder. You just have to delete all the refferences of those civs you don't like. If you play Apolyton Pack the file is called APOL_civilisation.txt. The according strings are stored in civ_str.txt in your ..\ctp2_data\german\gamedata\ folder, but you don't need to edit this file, because the additional strings in that file that aren't used by any civ are just ignored.

-Martin

	06-05-2004 19:40									#14
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Are we talking about the same strings I translated here?

Yep, that's it. Thanks.

Thanks for the info on the text files, too.

	06-05-2004 20:21									#15
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Are we talking about the same strings I translated here?

Oooops, I forgot this one!

	06-05-2004 22:29									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

By the way Martin, do you think the CtP2 Updater2 could work with Civ:CtP with the correct arrays?

	07-05-2004 19:02									#17
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin By the way Martin, do you think the CtP2 Updater2 could work with Civ:CtP with the correct arrays?

You mean with the correct code. Well you have to addapt the avalable updates and advances, and then you have to figure out if it can be ported to CTP1 and then you need to figure out if it can be ported to CTP1 how the code must look. As far as I know there isn't something like user defined arrays in CTP1 at least you cannot use them a in CTP2.

-Martin

	07-05-2004 20:09									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

No, there are no arrays in SLIC1. You could rewrite the code but it's a lot of work. I made a start with a unit upgrade feature for CtP1 years ago but my code had some annoying bugs. I'm confident it would have worked if I had gotten around to fixing the bugs but I didn't 'cause that was around the time they asked me to alpha-test for CtP2

(No, unfortunately I don't have the code anymore)

	07-05-2004 22:30									#19
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann You mean with the correct code. Well you have to addapt the avalable updates and advances, and then you have to figure out if it can be ported to CTP1 and then you need to figure out if it can be ported to CTP1 how the code must look. As far as I know there isn't something like user defined arrays in CTP1 at least you cannot use them a in CTP2.

Thanks Martin and Locutus, now I know I won't be able to adapt the Updater2 to fit Civ: CtP. I must admit upgrading all the units manually is a real pain but I will have to do without an Updater.

I would like to give Civ: CtP another chance one of these days as I don't think I have been very fair with it when it was released (I tested the game once and was really pi***d off by the sudden revolution caused by several wonders becoming obsolete from one turn to the other without any warning or message from the game).