06-05-2004 23:41									#1
	How much eco damage do you allow? Inflate your Upload Space

After the first fungal pop to open up clean mineral limits, how much eco damage to you allow in a typical city?

	07-05-2004 00:46									#2
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Cut planet and it will bleed energy credits.

	07-05-2004 01:00									#3
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The more ecodamage, the faster my ecodamage limit rises, the faster the seas rise and drown my enemies, and the faster worms throw themselves at me.

In TCP/IP multiplayer, since worms pop and attack in the same turn, I actually fear worms and will keep ecodamage low or at least carefully defend myself.

	07-05-2004 01:11									#4
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Jamski is the green god. All the rest of you are just Rat-Terrier wannabes who could scarcely pollute a fire hydrant.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=105573

	07-05-2004 01:28									#5
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I allow as many eco-damage as my worm busting troops can bear.

	07-05-2004 02:14									#6
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quote: Jamski is the green god. All the rest of you are just Rat-Terrier wannabes who could scarcely pollute a fire hydrant.

Like the man says

-Jam

	07-05-2004 02:53									#7
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I don't like to push it too much past 100, because then you start to get locusts, which are a real pain, and don't generate the $$$ that mind worms do because you can't kill the entire stack with just one attack. But ecodamage around 50-75 is just fine by me. Sometimes you can generate more cash running green and zapping mind worms than running FM and not being able to attack mind worms effectively. You don't get as good research with green, but it is a viable alternative in the late game when you have hordes of mind worms to deal with.

	07-05-2004 05:33									#8
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Mine is normally under 30 I think.

	07-05-2004 08:11									#9
	Remove this text

I don't monitor it -- should I?

	07-05-2004 08:50									#10
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No

	07-05-2004 12:31									#11
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0 if possible.

I voted for under 30. Because at a certain point it is impossible to keep it under 10 even under green.

	07-05-2004 13:15									#12
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Im usually under 10 because it prevents any further worm pops.
Why dont I use worms for credits?

1.At the coast often there are locusts and isles which are too hard to kill.
2.Often there are things to build in my queue which are much more profitable than another empath rover or somesuch..
3.At late game though I have not much to build and then I can pop those worms..

	07-05-2004 13:24									#13
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I just hate messing up my beautiful terraforming.

maybe I should have voted for under 10. For most of the game I can keep it under that amount. It's only when you build those late game mineral boosting facilities and SP's that damage build up.

	07-05-2004 13:31									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Like Dissident I don't like eco-damage because it plays havoc with terraforming. And I don't like moving lots of units out just to destroy eighteen thousand mind worm boils.

	07-05-2004 16:21									#15
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Eco-damage all the way. While it's rare for mine to get to excessive levels unless I've waited too long to build the Tree Farms after that vital first pop, I really couldn't care less how high it goes. By the time it might really wreck terraforming or cause seas to rise overly much, I'm already able to propose Solar Sails, and the only terraforming that really matters (Boreholes) aren't eliminated by Fungus Pops anyway.

I find though that Fungus Pops that produce Fungal Towers are more annoying than the Locasts however. Simply for the fact that they like to pop up under my crawlers, and can force me to kill one of my own units. A real pain when you needed that crawler to rush a project.

	07-05-2004 16:45									#16
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I like to keep ecodamage as low as possible. All that terraforming - I don't want to waste it.

In SP I utilise the rebuilding of Centauri Preserves to get an insane level of free minerals.

	07-05-2004 16:58									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns In SP I utilise the rebuilding of Centauri Preserves to get an insane level of free minerals.

Question. How much eco-damage approx would you have in those SP games without that exploit?

	07-05-2004 18:14									#18
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Archaic: Fungal Tower pop up under a crawler? Never heard of that.

	07-05-2004 18:19									#19
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Happens *all* the time to me, especially in OCC. It seems like it happens more often when you've made enough ecodamage to cause locusts, but you haven't got gravships yet. That's by no means a requirement to get them though. I think the earliest I've seen them was around the 2130's. I'll make a save file of it next time it happens for you and post it up.

Oddly enough, it *is* possible to move that crawler off there, but you need to right click on the tile, then activate unit from the unit tray. The move will be subject to normal ZOC's (Excluding the tower under it) though, which makes it almost impossible to get off when the tile is surrounded by locusts, worms, etc.

	07-05-2004 18:49									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Question. How much eco-damage approx would you have in those SP games without that exploit?

I also like to make boreholes and send up mineral sats...
You be the judge.

	07-05-2004 20:31									#21
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I rarely see the need to go beyond 30 mins, which is 14 bases with tree farms to be clean. The only time I'll run with eco damage is an OCC, but even then, not much. I'd rather have an OCC with 10 min production and massive energy production than running eco damage every turn.

I think my initial pop takes place when a base gets to 24/26 mins, and they rarely go higher. I'd sooner use energy to buy whatever I'm making.

C

	07-05-2004 21:08									#22
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I don't even pay attention to Eco-damage. I build my bases, increase my income and watch my empire grow. One thing I don't do is crawler tons of minerals to increase a particular base's mineral output, as we see Jam do in his earlier thread.

	08-05-2004 05:44									#23
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I'm with CEO Aaron on this one; minerals are a FoP and should be managed as such. Get what you need and let the environment take care of itself.

I base my mineral production on the price of supply units + 10. If they cost 30, I want to harvest 40. If they cost 50 (*-2-1 Drop, very useful), I want 60.

I used to try to keep every base at a low level of damage throughout the game in preparation for the Manifold Harmonics, but that's really a waste of time and opportunity to boost other factors of production. As long as you get that first pop early so your buildings will count toward your metal limit and it isn't against your religion to sell off polluting factories you'll be fine.

(Genejack, Robotic, and Quant Converter add to mineral output without increasing the metal limit. Why build them at a fungus-heavy base with already massive metal output? A Nanoreplicator alone should suffice. I never build QC's anyway, anticipating the Singularity Inductor.)

	08-05-2004 10:08									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns I also like to make boreholes and send up mineral sats... You be the judge.

Mineral Sats are clean minerals which don't contribute to eco-damage.

	08-05-2004 11:29									#25
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Don't you need a Robotic Plant to build a Nanoreplicator?

	08-05-2004 11:41									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic Mineral Sats are clean minerals which don't contribute to eco-damage.

Oh, so now you tell me!
Thanks.

	11-05-2004 02:00									#27
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Hmm ... I'll need to check that out, Patashu ... I remember being able to sell off Robotic plants but keep the Nanoreps around, but I don't recall ever building just a Nanoreplicator.

I DO remember thinking to myself after scrapping a Robotic plant, "Gee, I should build just the Nanoreplicator next time, since it has a pollution-mitigating effect." But I've never actually done it.

	11-05-2004 09:29									#28
	Put an end to popups!

Fungus Tower popping up from under a crawler, from my latest lazy OCC attempt.

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...14015_tower.gif

	11-05-2004 09:49									#29
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When you have tech stag and blind tech and is pre crawlers and tree farms, sometimes building more formers can soak the mineral output and decrease eco-damage. Although probably not recommended but it is an alternative.