07-05-2004 11:47									#1
	AP Elimination QQ Game Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Players:
Rommel2D(Byzantines) jwala at fastmail dot fm
Redboy(Iroquios) wswanson at telus dot net
Conqueror(Koreans) Conqueror at mbnet dot fi
sabrewolf(English) sabrewolf at blackhole dot ch

Four players
No AI
Tiny Pangea w/70%water
Roaming barbarians
Emporer level
C/T/A random
Cultural Conversions and SGLs ON
Accelerated Production
Elimination Mode

quote: From the Conquests manual: Elimination When this victory condition is enabled, victory can be swift indeed. Under this rule, when you lose a city ---- any city ---- your entire civilization is eliminated from the game. The last civilization remaining wins the game.

This is all I know for sure about elimination; I'd like to play this game to see if there are any 'undocumented' features. One thing to watch out for is that if you are popping goody huts and receive a city which is then taken, you lose.

I'd like to use all the IC expliot/ettiquette guidelines, allowing ship chains and having some sort of basic combat report. Has anyone used CRs yet?

	07-05-2004 11:49									#2
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Any better suggestions for turn order? Redboy, you're an hour behind me according to Poly clocks, but if you can play a turn in the early morning before work, it might be better to go before me, as I usually check in the late morning before work.

I'd also recommend the first turn restart option.

I'll send out the first turn if this looks Ok to everyone and Redboy gives me his email address...

Last edited by Rommel2D on 07-05-2004 at 12:14

	07-05-2004 12:42									#3
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Looks OK. Yeah, definately use the IC rules

This will propably be lots of fun, havent played Elimination before.

AP had a bug in PtW, where needed food amount for growth wasnt shown right w/Granary in the city. Interesting to see if they have fixed that.

	07-05-2004 12:54									#4
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sounds fine to me!

i am often out until quite late, and usually go to bed between 00 and 01 UK-imt, so maybe my turn should be after conqueror's. but if you're a late-nighter too, it doesn't really matter.

i've been playing AP in 2 further PBEMs. it seems to work fine

	07-05-2004 13:49									#5
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btw, my email-address: sabrewolf AT blackhole TOD ch

	07-05-2004 13:56									#6
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf i am often out until quite late, and usually go to bed between 00 and 01 UK-imt, so maybe my turn should be after conqueror's. but if you're a late-nighter too, it doesn't really matter.

I usually go to bed around 11 GMT, so perhaps youre right.

	08-05-2004 12:08									#7
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4000 to Redboy

Looks to be some interesting draws for an elimination game! I wouldn't blame you if you considered a restart sabre, unless you get some choice land (or feel some Central European patriotism... ;-).

	08-05-2004 14:45									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

sounds like a mountainious start

i'm btw from the "flatlands". our lake is 430m over the sea and near us it's only hills. so if you have given me a juicy grasslandy area with lots of hills and wine, cattle and wheat... i may give it a try

... ok, i'll have a look anyway...

	08-05-2004 14:51									#9
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf sounds like a mountainious start

Rommel propably meant the civ you drew, as i dont think he has looked at the start positions, because he is playing himself.

But, as i see from the first post, you have either the Dutch (Netherlands) or the Deutsch (Germans), i cant see anything wrong with those civs ? Atleast theyre both better civs than my Hittites

	08-05-2004 15:06									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

yeeees, the germans! don't attack me until late industrial age and my panzers will show you the real deal

don't underestimate the 3-wheel chariot! they have similar combat success values like swordsmen as they compensate part of lacking attack with the ability to withdraw. at at least you start with alphabet!

but i'm most afraid of rommel's carthagans and his NMs. and of course redboy's mounted warriors!

	08-05-2004 19:42									#11
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4000 to conqueror,

	08-05-2004 20:21									#12
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sent to sabrewolf

	08-05-2004 20:52									#13
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3950BC to rommel2d

uhrgh, not a nice start

	08-05-2004 20:56									#14
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf uhrgh, not a nice start

You can say that again, i have almost worst start ever in PBEM.

Well, bit challenge wont hurt once in a while.

	08-05-2004 21:57									#15
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3950 to Redboy

Sorry about the misspelling

I didn't look at anyone else's start. With elimination mode, I consider the Germans to be a liability with a late-era UU. I fear the 3-man chariots mostly because their range will mean they can pop up on almost any border...

Are you guys dead set against restarts, or didn't I clarify that I meant to use that rule option here?

So, sabre, do you feel a closer tie to the Germans, or the Dutch because of the Swiss Merc?

	08-05-2004 22:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Rommel2D I didn't look at anyone else's start. With elimination mode, I consider the Germans to be a liability with a late-era UU. I fear the 3-man chariots mostly because their range will mean they can pop up on almost any border...

But Germans have other advantages, Sci/Mil have good chanses of popping SGL's and MGL's.

quote: [SIZE=1] Are you guys dead set against restarts, or didn't I clarify that I meant to use that rule option here?

I usually try to avoid them, it feels kind of lame to call a restart in normal game. I think i'll get 2 food soon, i just need to irrigate some plains

	08-05-2004 22:14									#17
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closer tie? uhm, interesting question.
well, dutch sounds very like swiss german but it's a completely different language. still some germans can't tell the difference
but no, i don't feel a tie to either. before conquests i never even heard of our mercenaries... and even if i would have... that was centuries ago!

about the restarts, if i'm not the only one asking for another start, i wouldn't mind that . if everyone else wants to continue, i'll do so too...
but i don't want to be a spoil-sport on my own

	08-05-2004 22:20									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Conqueror But Germans have other advantages, Sci/Mil have good chanses of popping SGL's and MGL's.

no higher chances of MGLs, just the promotions before that.

forget about SGLs: germans start with BW and WC so no chance along the writing path (i think 2 of your start with alphabet)

germans do have one big advantage: starting with archers from the beginning on. but that only really works against AI which don't have BW and defend their cities weakely. i don't think an archer of mine will take out any of your cities... especially not at elimination (--> defensive tactics)

quote: I usually try to avoid them, it feels kind of lame to call a restart in normal game. I think i'll get 2 food soon, i just need to irrigate some plains

ouch! poor mate
for your sake, i hope you're joking

	08-05-2004 22:22									#19
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I take it you're not Catholic? ;-)

I'm trying to introduce the first turn restart option as another strategic element of PBEM games. I think it would be a cleaner, simpler and quicker way of minimizing unbalanced starts than using an outside moderator. But you have to stand up and demand your rights!

	08-05-2004 22:27									#20
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do you mean the pope's "guards"? ... well, they're a joke anyway and only symbolic... i mean, how can you defend one of the most important religious people with pikes and medieval steel plating. the glashouse he drives around at least can stop bullets...
even whitney houston has better protection

back on topic: would anyone be deeply upset if i do ask for a restart?

	08-05-2004 22:33									#21
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf do you mean the pope's "guards"? ... well, they're a joke anyway and only symbolic... i mean, how can you defend one of the most important religious people with pikes and medieval steel plating. the glashouse he drives around at least can stop bullets... even whitney houston has better protection

Actually, there are lots of them there with MP5 & vests for emergency, the spear guys are just for audience to look at.

quote: back on topic: would anyone be deeply upset if i do ask for a restart?

Nope, suits me fine (i wasnt joking about the irrigation )

	08-05-2004 22:38									#22
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf no higher chances of MGLs, just the promotions before that.

Was this changed in C3C ?
In PtW you had half better chanses of getting the leader when you were playing militaristic civ.
If it has changed, then militaristic is not so good anymore, youre right on that.

	08-05-2004 22:43									#23
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Technically, it should be done before you send the first turn on, but seeing as how it wasn't made very clear and this is an experimental game, I'll restart and send to Reticentboy. :-)
Just keep in mind this is a one-shot deal. If you get another poor start sabre, it was obviously your fate...

	08-05-2004 22:47									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Conqueror Was this changed in C3C ? In PtW you had half better chanses of getting the leader when you were playing militaristic civ. If it has changed, then militaristic is not so good anymore, youre right on that.

Oops, i was wrong, there WAS NOT any bonus for leader generation, only the Heroic Epic increases MGL chanses.

Again i remember badly

	08-05-2004 22:47									#25
	Put an end to popups!

rommel, yup, i'm aware of that.
sorry for sending it further...

quote: Originally posted by Conqueror Was this changed in C3C ? In PtW you had half better chanses of getting the leader when you were playing militaristic civ. If it has changed, then militaristic is not so good anymore, youre right on that.

nope, you never had greater chances for leaders, neither civ3, nor ptw, nor c3c (ask theseus, alexman, etc. for confirmation). you DO however have the double the chance for promotion! which inherently gives you more elites and therefor more shots for leaders

	08-05-2004 23:02									#26
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Regenerated, 4000BC to Redboy

I'll update the tribes in the first post. It looks like we'll see just how firm Conqueror's resolve is...

	08-05-2004 23:55									#27
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redboy seems to be locked with the iroquois

i've again got a crappy UU, but at least this time traits i prefer.

lets see the starting position now

	09-05-2004 01:17									#28
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4000 bc sent to sabre

	09-05-2004 01:36									#29
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3950bc to rommel

	09-05-2004 01:46									#30
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chanses for unit triggered golden age are pretty slim for us besides Redboy, as my unit doesnt come before game is over, and sabre/rommel have naval UU's

If this were a sports match, redboy would have the best odds