14-05-2004 14:13									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus About the battering ram; it wouldn't be of much use as every unit with a melee strike can strike down gates (not walls!).

This was added when they removed the battering ram, and it is actually this rule that does not make any sense to me. It makes attacking a walled city too easy, which in fact should be extremely hard.

quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Besides there's plenty of units that can phase, fly, pass walls, crush walls etc, so there should be enough alternatives

Not that many, and ones that can are expensive.

	14-05-2004 14:58									#32
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Well there are enough alternatives for me personally, but it's possible that other people still like the battering ram.

Other units might be expensive, but if you play the game well that's not a big problem. On highest difficulty the enemy civs have 5 times as much troops as I have anyway and I still beat them. Some cheese such as the Air galley is needed tho .


PS: there are a lot of walled structures and it's not so practical to take battering rams along all the time. I hated the fact that I could not capture an empty watchtower in AoW1. At the start of the game a battering ram was needed, and it took a loong time before rams pass forests etc. The game in general is faster now and I don't mind

	14-05-2004 15:41									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus Well there are enough alternatives for me personally, but it's possible that other people still like the battering ram.

It's not whether I like the battering ram, it's the requirment of it presents a strategic problem that a player must overcome.

Since the AI sucked at doing that, I was not surprised the battering ram was removed, but it's a cheesy move IMO.

	14-05-2004 17:31									#34
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Didn't it just make the game slower and more boring?

-Jam

	14-05-2004 21:11									#35
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Yes!! I never liked that battering ram much because it was so weak and slow. Even the ram needed quite a few turns to kill a wall (if it's stone, wooden walls only take 2 turns iirc) and the ram is an easy target.

If the AI attacks your city and you only have a handful of units just destroy the battering ram(s) with archers/spells and the enemy retreats

	16-05-2004 21:47									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Didn't it just make the game slower and more boring?

No. City defenses are designed in such a way that a small number of defenders can repel a large number of attackers. If sheer number instead of special devices could knock down city gates, what is the point of having them?

	19-05-2004 02:52									#37
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I concur- in Age of Wonders I had some very dramatic sieges, like when a command with 6 units and no hero's supported by another ocmmand of four beat back a very superior force of about 25-30 enemies (all units on all sides were level 2 or 1) by knowing how to channel the enemies through breaches in the walls. In fact, the battle ended when my one remaining war elephant one hitpoint from death killed the last remaining dark elf horseman.

	19-05-2004 13:40									#38
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Sounds very heart-pounding

	19-05-2004 22:28									#39
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It's all a matter of taste, I like powerful units
I especially like slaughtering 3x8 enemy stacks with only one 8 stack of my own and slaughtering them in 2 turns, and making the finishing touches in turn 3 and perhaps 4

Naturally I need my wizard to lend me a hand in destroying my opponent

	19-05-2004 22:30									#40
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I got it, played it for a couple weeks and was having fun with it... Then Dominions2 arrived and I haven't gotten back to it, maybe I will.

	20-05-2004 16:38									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Trajanus It's all a matter of taste, I like powerful units

I like powerful units too, but each unit has its place (if the game is properly designed ).

	20-05-2004 18:10									#42
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In the kitchen?

	20-05-2004 22:45									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Sounds very heart-pounding

It was- I was well on my way towards utter and complete victory and these forces were simply guarding an area I though was in no danger when the largest section of the dark elf army decides to get their city back. The attack caught me completely off guard and I was not expecting victory at all, becuase my forces were so inferior- at the end I had 2 unit, him 1- my first unit attacks, fails, gets killed-so it came down to that one on one match..and then I win.

The thing was he had no real reserves, so my next turn I reenforced the elephant and went on to wipe him out.

	20-05-2004 22:50									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger I like powerful units too, but each unit has its place (if the game is properly designed ).

i actually made a scenerio in which all races were there but no race had any units higher than level 2 (the one in which this battle occured.

Though I have to say some of my fiercests battles in AoW did include level 4's sometimes. one time when I had three commands (of 8) of good units (maily highmen) lead by a hero ambushed in a forest by a force of 4 commands (of 8) of orcs and undead it made for an incredible battle. I lost though.

I had another engagement in that game in which the odds were the same (sans hero), and that one I won with one survivor unit.

	22-05-2004 14:02									#45
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Undeads have some pretty grim units

	05-06-2004 17:34									#46
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I have found the new ultimate joy in this game - open the map editor, create and populate a map at random, don't look at it and save it. Then you can play a straight conquest game on a new map every time!

Wow!

I'm finally in fantasy TBS heaven

-Jam

	05-06-2004 18:30									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I have found the new ultimate joy in this game - open the map editor, create and populate a map at random, don't look at it and save it. Then you can play a straight conquest game on a new map every time! Wow! I'm finally in fantasy TBS heaven -Jam

You can play on a random map through the game without using the editor.


But the AI doesn't build any cities.

	05-06-2004 18:32									#48
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I selected LOTS for cites in the editor, and then the AI captures loads of independant cites.

The AI won't build them from scratch anyway - its too time consuming. Same as in MoM - always better to capture a city than build one.

-Jam

	05-06-2004 19:18									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski I have found the new ultimate joy in this game - open the map editor, create and populate a map at random, don't look at it and save it. Then you can play a straight conquest game on a new map every time! Wow! I'm finally in fantasy TBS heaven -Jam

Better yet....have someone create one for you.

	05-06-2004 19:49									#50
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Be my guest I found it took a long time to make maps that look good. Although you can make them look VERY DAMN GOOD

-Jam

	05-06-2004 21:34									#51
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Yeah, I could try, but I was thinking that you'd be able to find some online.

	05-06-2004 23:23									#52
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I prefer scenarios... because random games are too straightforward and too easy, and there's never any 'special' stuff in it, like leet traps and treasures and hidden cities

	06-06-2004 02:47									#53
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I think that is what we are talking about....user made random maps...aka scenarios made by users.

	06-06-2004 05:15									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Undeads have some pretty grim units

Well, I think all races have some fair units.

When it comes to level one units, I think dawrves, goblins, and halflings have the best-dwarfe axemen are as tough as orcs, the bezerkers are real killers. Goblin darters and halfling slingers are ore powerful I think than even elven archers, and the halflings get mounted forces in level one.

Level 2, I think the highmen, azrac and orcs are best, mainly for the power of their level 2 horsemen. Azrac for speed, orc for strenght, paladins for speed and the ability to heal. Highmen saints are great, as are frostling shamans

Level 3, the Azrac suck badly, and many races are sort of not that great. Orc Warlords are terryfying, the UNdea have the best overall level 3, the highmen are good, specially against the undead. The frostlings also have a very good level 3.

On level four, I think the goblins, lizardmen and azrac have the most powerful units. All the flying ones are very powerful of course, but I fear an Avatar more than a Red dragon.

	06-06-2004 20:30									#55
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Have you used an Incarnate or seen one used sucessfully by the computer? Those look very scary on paper. Happily, I have always used Air Galleys against them.

As for undead units, some of them have Cause Death or whatever you call it. They can kill your units with a mere touch.

What's an avatar? I forgot.

	06-06-2004 22:05									#56
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* Jamski shrugs*

I like Fairy Dragons...

* Jamski gets his coat*

-Jam

	09-06-2004 02:44									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Have you used an Incarnate or seen one used sucessfully by the computer? Those look very scary on paper. Happily, I have always used Air Galleys against them.

Well, interesting cause that does not work against them, as they are immune to physical attack. I have seen them work, and when they do they are deadly. I had a whole unit of troops,in which none had magic attacks taken out. IN general thought, they fail a lot of the time and they have a hard time taking over powerfull units.

quote: As for undead units, some of them have Cause Death or whatever you call it. They can kill your units with a mere touch.

Only the level 4 Grim Reaper can do that. Those level four are powerful, yes, but not unbeatable. I think their ability to destroy farms by making the land they walk on wasteland is very powerfull strategically.

quote: What's an avatar? I forgot.

The Yakka Avatar is the level 4 unit from the Azrac. Lots of HP, nasty punch and magic attack, PLUS has dominate, the ability to take over your units minds, and it works more often than charm. I saw one Avatar take out 3 Orc warlords.

	09-06-2004 02:49									#58
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I have to say I never saw Dominate fail. Not once. Charm seems the worse, Seduce is pretty reliable - but only works against humanoids, but Dominate seems to be the business.

-Jam

	09-06-2004 08:35									#59
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Well, interesting cause that does not work against them, as they are immune to physical attack.

Are you sure?

quote: Originally posted by GePap Only the level 4 Grim Reaper can do that. Those level four are powerful, yes, but not unbeatable.

Doesn't the level 3 undead beast (or whatever it's called) also has it?

quote: Originally posted by GePap I think their ability to destroy farms by making the land they walk on wasteland is very powerfull strategically.

That's why I don't understand how undead cities could grow in size.

	09-06-2004 13:39									#60
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Doesn't wasteland work like farmland for Undead???

-Jam