07-05-2004 18:07									#1
	Age of Wonders : Shadow Magic Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ok... I just got this today, and guess what? No manual. Oh well, at that price I can't be picky.

First impression is that they've basically tried to clone MoM, as I'm seeing a lot of the same units, spells, domains etc. However... I'm trying to play it like MoM, but the way the game is more "scenario" based than the old classic means this is going down the pan.

So now I'm trying to play it like WC3, using a hero to "creep" (Its really creeping in TBS) and I seem to be having more luck.

Anyway, does anyone else play this game? So far it seems not bad at all, but the large numbers of units, buildings, items, spells and skills are pretty confusing.

What would any pros suggest I try? Halflings and Life magic

-Jam

	07-05-2004 18:24									#2
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I been playing it for the last few weeks, but have had little time due to RL popping up its ugly head.

This game is a huge time hole, many hours pass quickly when playing. Unfortunately, since I got my X-box, I've been playing those games instead. I'm still on the 2nd scenario, so I haven't gotten very far yet, but it does have a little of that MoM feel to it.

Wow, I just realized that I have not turned on my home PC in over a week. Wow!

	07-05-2004 18:41									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Bad boy! Sell your X-Box on Ebay

Yeah, its eaten most of my day already. Each "mission" takes about as long and is as involving as a whole game of MoM.

-Jam

	07-05-2004 20:01									#4
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I don't like how the unit hierarchy is constructed. There is too much of power curve on the unit teirs, with the top units being godly compaired to the basics. It ends up so that amries are made up entirely of orcish warlords or dwarven runemaster, or whatever is the best and the units like wariors spearmen, ect... aren't seen. In the same line, I also feel that it's too much of an investment to be able to build the high-end units.

	07-05-2004 21:42									#5
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Really? It seems very easy to get the high ends, much easier than MoM. Barracks, War thingie, and Champion's whatever, and you're there.

I just completely overestimated how good my hero with a couple of levels and a couple of found items was and got him killed. Dammit

Question : What do I need to make items ingame? A spell? A building?

-Jam

	07-05-2004 21:59									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Really? It seems very easy to get the high ends, much easier than MoM. Barracks, War thingie, and Champion's whatever, and you're there.

There's less things to build, but I feel that it takes more time - not as many turns as in MoM, but MoM progressed much slower. The cost of building those units in gold is also a big investment, especially since they can eat up so much upkeep.

Of course, it makes sense when they are so powerful... but I would like to see the field be a bit more level without bouncing from extreme cheapness/weakness to extreme cost/power.

quote: Question : What do I need to make items ingame? A spell? A building? -Jam

There a building that allows you to do that... it branches off from a wizard tower upgrade (level 3?) I think. I've never actually done that in a game, though. I feel that this is too big an investment aswell. even moreso than than the high end units.

	07-05-2004 22:11									#7
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Hmmm... isn't the whole fun in building up mighty heros and fitting them out with crazy items?

-Jam

	07-05-2004 22:43									#8
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Maybe that's why I don't enjoy it. I would rather have grand epic battles with legions of infantry ect. than a couple demi-gods duking it out and swating down regular troops like the mosquitos they are.

	07-05-2004 22:55									#9
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The human Air Galley is easily the most powerful unit in Age of Wonders. IIRC, it was even more powerful in the first game.

	07-05-2004 23:08									#10
	Re: Age of Wonders : Shadow Magic Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Jamski Ok... I just got this today, and guess what? No manual. Oh well, at that price I can't be picky.

Translation: I downloaded this game, so I need people that paid for it to tell me how it works.

	07-05-2004 23:18									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger The human Air Galley is easily the most powerful unit in Age of Wonders. IIRC, it was even more powerful in the first game.

It was not quite more powerful itself, but most other units in the game couldn't hit it, making it simply überpowerful against ground units with no ranged attack. Also, since the AI in AoW1 was not very good compared to SM's AI, it created a lot of orc warlords etc in 1 stack, making it easy for the galley to decimate them. In SM that does not happen as often as in AoW1, but it still is a nice unit. In AoW2 (and SM) there were far more units that could hit it (flyers, and especially magic bolts seems pretty effective). However note that in SM, the galley has the 'ram' ability, making it even more powerful now against flyers (though it won't be of particularly much use when fighting multiple flyers).


A more cost-effective unit is easily the Orc Warlord. It's hellishly expensive for a level 3 unit, but it has more power, hit points and attack than some level 4 units. Also it takes less turns to build them than the lvl4 units due to the lower cost. They are incredibly powerful in numbers, but can easily be defeated when using the right strategy. That is, using poison attacks. A group of goblin darters (that are together a lot cheaper than that 1 Orc Warlord) has a decent chance of killing the Warlord in open terrain, and has 100% chance of killing him when defending from stone walls.

That's where I don't agree with Ludd . Every unit can be defeated, you simply need to have the right troops. Also the game would not be as strategic if it weren't for the bigger units with special abilities. Okay goblin spearmen have a few abilities such as polearm, first strike, night vision etc but 2 armies composed of just those units would not involve much strategy, only luck and sheer numbers.

	07-05-2004 23:21									#12
	Re: Re: Age of Wonders : Shadow Magic Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Translation: I downloaded this game, so I need people that paid for it to tell me how it works.

Oh, Doctor... have ye so little faith in our fellow Jamski?

	07-05-2004 23:35									#13
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Yup.

	07-05-2004 23:36									#14
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Such accusations!

Ok, I just lost the second map by getting my wizard killed.

But wait... Yay! I'm still alive!

Gotta love that.

Ok... why are my Elf Longbowmen (apparently the best archers in the game) utterly pants even against stuff with no armour?

-Jam

	07-05-2004 23:40									#15
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Btw it's good you have Shadow Magic Jamski! It's a 100 times better than Age of Wonders 2. In fact, SM is what AoW2 should have been. A much better campaign, more units with more diverse abilities, better balance, better tweaking (many units have their abilities reviewed; For example nearly all lvl1 militia troops (that's the first unit you can build without having a barracks in your city) now have polearm, which is very effective when fighting mounted and flying troops. They still have poor health and defense, but at least it doesn't make them cannon fodder, especially since many of them also have first strike. And, they're incredibly cheap units).
Another mighty good change is the 2 gates/wall (AoW2 only had 1 gate for every wall) and the AI.
When playing at the highest difficulty level you need to kill zillions of enemy units, and you can only do that by using the right units and spells

	07-05-2004 23:46									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Such accusations! Ok, I just lost the second map by getting my wizard killed. But wait... Yay! I'm still alive! Gotta love that. Ok... why are my Elf Longbowmen (apparently the best archers in the game) utterly pants even against stuff with no armour? -Jam

They're not the best archers... Centaurs are better, and Archon Charioteers are better too for example . Depends on who you used them on? Btw note that you won't hit them if you fire from too far (the little spheres turn red, and in the bottom left window it will show the odds of hitting your target). Ideally (and logically) you need to position your archers on higher ground and your chances of hitting will improve enormously. Btw archers have 3 shots, but if you move around your archers too much you'll only have 2 shots, or even 1. Also be sure to put your archers behind your grunt troops for protection, but I guess all of that is quite obvious

	08-05-2004 00:01									#17
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Just appreciate the value of veteran troops. Some units gain more abilites as they level up, so don't necessarily think of all "built" units as throw-away fodder.

	08-05-2004 00:09									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Really? It seems very easy to get the high ends, much easier than MoM. Barracks, War thingie, and Champion's whatever, and you're there. I just completely overestimated how good my hero with a couple of levels and a couple of found items was and got him killed. Dammit Question : What do I need to make items ingame? A spell? A building? -Jam

An item forge with a level 3 wiz tower, and items will carry over with your heros, but I already have lots of things my single hero, and your wizard should not leave the tower anyway.

	08-05-2004 01:18									#19
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This game is actually good enough that I don't care if they make MoM2 or not. And that's saying something.

I didn't see that you could check the odds, and I didn't know the high ground would help... as for putting the grunts in front, they always get in the way of the arrows

So... give me a week, and then I'll take someone on Its begging to be played in MP.

-Jam

	08-05-2004 16:37									#20
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You will be utterly and completely crushed Jamski

quote: I didn't see that you could check the odds, and I didn't know the high ground would help... as for putting the grunts in front, they always get in the way of the arrows

Not if your archers are on higher ground, they most likely fire over your own troops' heads. Especially if you shoot diagonally in between units (not straight ahead).
But the easiest way is to put your archer directly behind a grunt troop. Units will fire over your own troops' heads if they are directly standing behind another one of your own troops.

Btw magic is abundant in SM, so be sure to use it all the time to buff your troops etc. (very useful is stoneskin = +3 defense; stoneskin cast on an orc warlord makes the unit nigh indestructible )

	08-05-2004 19:55									#21
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I suppose I need to be an Earth wizard to get Stoneskin? Hmm... I gotta play around with this game some more, its really time-eating me

Yeah, and I'll be crushed, but 'twill be fun

-Jam

	10-05-2004 01:00									#22
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Yeah that's the biggest disadvantage: VERY time-consuming

	10-05-2004 16:53									#23
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I don't have Shadow Magic, since AoW 2 gave me a very bad taste in my mouth.

One question, did they put Battering Ram back? I couldn't believe they took it out from AoW 2. It's so bloody cheesy.

The Air Galley was awesome in AoW One Galley could wipe out entire stacks of enemy units, particularly ones with no ranged attacks. Also I couldn't find a way to defeat a Rift Lord in AoW 2 without an Air Galley.

	10-05-2004 17:05									#24
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The battering ram is gone, but the air galley remains. They've made the AI build lots of ranged units (it says here) so flyers are pretty vunerable.

Hey, I had no social life anyway

-Jam

	10-05-2004 17:16									#25
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spent all day saturday playing this game

got pretty far as shadow demons and frostlings

spent yesterday playing AvP2 and trying to play City of Heroes

in a couple hours will need to go into school and grade

Jon Miller

	13-05-2004 22:18									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski The battering ram is gone, but the air galley remains.

Bah! Disgusting!

quote: Originally posted by Jamski They've made the AI build lots of ranged units (it says here) so flyers are pretty vunerable.

Only a ballista has the range of an air galley, though.

	14-05-2004 00:22									#27
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Or you could use a repeater ballista
It has 3 shots (like an archer) so you can move it around and still fire in 1 turn, it's somewhat stronger, but the individual shots are a bit weaker iirc. Anyhow it's better and more expensive

Well AoW2 didn't really live up to my expectations either. SM is basically what AoW2 should have been. On top of that it's a disgrace that SM costs full price while it's somewhat of a (very very big) expansion, because it's still the same game with a few improvements.

About the battering ram; it wouldn't be of much use as every unit with a melee strike can strike down gates (not walls!). Also keep in mind that a ram is really slow... your cavalry would beat down a gate ages before a ram destroys a wall.
Besides there's plenty of units that can phase, fly, pass walls, crush walls etc, so there should be enough alternatives

	14-05-2004 00:35									#28
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Two heros + 6 summoned unicorns had no problem phasing into my enemy's capital city this afternoon. That was a tasty stack.

The fact that the heros were LOADED with spells and items helped a lot too A helmet with Leadership 3 makes everyone in the battle have +2 attack and +1 defense. Sweet killer unicorns

-Jam

	14-05-2004 03:42									#29
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a +3 leadership helmet

I haven't even seen that yet. I always get petty +1 leadership helmets. Worthless as I give my heroes leadership whenever I have the possibility!

Btw try the orc warlord+dark gift+enchant weapon+unholy champion+stoneskin+leadership+life stealing (every orc unit receives that ability if produced in a city that has the orc unique building already built there)

=> your warlords will be demigods (and even more so against 'good' aligned units!)

PS: you'll need some mana upkeep etc but it's worth it. Besides magic should be used as much as possible (it's like the potions in BG, don't save them!! In many games I end up with 20k mana in stock anyway so there's plenty)

	14-05-2004 04:00									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I make the Leadership III helmets myself If the hero has Leadership too, then that's 4 levels of leadership, giving all friendly units on the battlefield +2 attack and +2 defence. Even crap level 1 troops can take the fight with bonuses like that before any spells and without any upkeep

Tough units become unkillable

-Jam