14-05-2004 08:40									#151
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Lincoln was one of the greatest leaders of any nation in history. That's why he's in Civ III.

More to the point, he was one of the greatest moral leaders in history. Putting Reagan anywhere near him is simply disgusting.

	14-05-2004 08:43									#152
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Lincoln was one of the greatest leaders of any nation in history. That's why he's in Civ III. More to the point, he was one of the greatest moral leaders in history. Putting Reagan anywhere near him is simply disgusting.

Oh lord -- please don't tell that you automatically presume someone was a great leader because comptuer game designers thought it would be "cool" to have him/her in the game???



And as for moralization -- President Lincoln had more pragmatic reasons for enacting the Emancipation Proclamation than for moral reasons. And how about them Copperheads? Not all of the Copperheads were traitors -- many of them were loyal opposition.

	14-05-2004 08:46									#153
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Agathon More to the point, he was one of the greatest moral leaders in history.

If using the Constitution as toilet paper is the way to be "one of the greatest moral leaders in history," the competition must not be that fierce.

	14-05-2004 08:47									#154
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Eh? I suppose you think that Michael Jackson would make a better leader for the Americans in Civ III. (Modder alert).

So if someone put Lincoln in a book called "Great Leaders of History" that wouldn't strike you as a reason to think that he might be?

I can't see how any reasonable person could deny that Lincoln was a great leader. Next thing you'll be saying Napoleon was a terrible general.

	14-05-2004 08:47									#155
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Using the Constitution as toilet paper -- now there's a fallacious distortion of a president's dilemma in the midst of a civil war.

	14-05-2004 08:48									#156
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Eh? I suppose you think that Michael Jackson would make a better leader for the Americans in Civ III. (Modder alert). So if someone put Lincoln in a book called "Great Leaders of History" that wouldn't strike you as a reason to think that he might be? I can't see how any reasonable person could deny that Lincoln was a great leader. Next thing you'll be saying Napoleon was a terrible general.

President Lincoln was a great leader in my book -- but not to the point of heroification or glorification. Hell, if you glorified any historical public figure, you distort his image just as you would distort his image by doing the opposite -- villifying him to no end.

President Lincoln had his own flaws and he made his own mistakes.

	14-05-2004 08:52									#157
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If not people like Lincoln, who are we supposed to heroize?

	14-05-2004 08:54									#158
	Remove this text

How can you heroify a historical figure and still be objective, when the very concept of heroification is subjective?

	14-05-2004 08:55									#159
	Put an end to popups!

Wow... Mr Fun is making incredibly good sense... I must need another beer .

	14-05-2004 08:56									#160
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

@ Imran

	14-05-2004 08:58									#161
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Laugh WITH me, dammit!

	14-05-2004 08:58									#162
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

hey -- when I use the "@" I usually do mean "with"



so it's all good

	14-05-2004 09:01									#163
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: so it's all good

Thanks for accepting my Reagan avatar then (it's all good, right?)

	14-05-2004 09:01									#164
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Let's not rehash the traumatic ambush I suffered last night.

	14-05-2004 09:03									#166
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I see Agathon had jumped ship . . . . .

	14-05-2004 09:05									#167
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Probably drowned in his own spittle.

	14-05-2004 09:06									#168
	Full PM-box? Change here!

aaaaaawwwww -- the poor widdle kid

	14-05-2004 09:08									#169
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Don't feel sorry for him... he's a philosophy professor... bastard had it coming

	14-05-2004 09:10									#170
	Remove this text

But hey now -- philosophy is not all bad.

	14-05-2004 09:11									#171
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Well I never said that... I was commenting on those who teach it .

	14-05-2004 10:10									#172
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by GePap good to see that 'rugged individualism' among the ranks of our conservatives..remember, "you are all individuals"..... Good to see cults of personality are dead as well...

Yup, that's the irony of it.

There's an old joke about people in Hong Kong joining a line-up. If you ask them why they're in the queue, they'll say "If everybody else is lining up then there must be something good."

Show you're a sheep, post a Reagan avatar!

	14-05-2004 11:36									#173
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

"If using the Constitution as toilet paper is the way to be "one of the greatest moral leaders in history," the competition must not be that fierce."

In stark contrast to the present administration, right?

Anyway, the slave states were already violating the fundamental principle on which the nation was founded - the equality of man. To say that they could use the constitution to support their unamerican practices is to say that they can have their cake and eat it, too.

	14-05-2004 11:46									#174
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Of course mono is right.

And heroification being a subjective thing? Don't be stupid. There are public criteria for heroism, it's not just a preference like one's favourite flavour of icecream. One can like a person without believing them to be a hero.

	14-05-2004 16:15									#175
	Increase Your PM Length

I think that there can be a certain degree of subjectivity when it comes to defining who is and isn't a hero.

	14-05-2004 17:13									#176
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Probably drowned in his own spittle.

Don't you mean "bile"?

	14-05-2004 17:14									#177
	Increase Your PM Length

Says the man w/ the Maggie av...

	14-05-2004 17:17									#178
	Inflate your Upload Space

Eh, it was a lark anyway. I'll probably go back to my old one before the weekend's out.

	14-05-2004 17:19									#179
	Suffering from ads?

I'll switch when the Raygun avs go...

	14-05-2004 17:37									#180
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by monolith94 "If using the Constitution as toilet paper is the way to be "one of the greatest moral leaders in history," the competition must not be that fierce." In stark contrast to the present administration, right?

I'm not the one stupid enough to nominate Lincoiln as "one of the greatest moral leaders in history," Aggie is. Furthermore, I'm not talking about that states that rose up in rebellion. I'm talking about his abuse of power in the Union states. Ex parte Merryman being an example of the least of them.