18-05-2004 21:16									#91
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MrFun:

quote: I basically I said there is no rationality behind denying two people recognition of their relationship.

Sure there is; deny gays marriage, fewer people get married, fewer people benefit from marriage tax excemptions, more money for the state, less need to tax the rest of us. Perfectly rational.

Point being, the case for homosexual marriage can be more profitably be made on the basis of justice than on rationality.

	18-05-2004 21:17									#92
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Justice and rationality are exclusive of one another?

	18-05-2004 21:19									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Sava Boris: Do you support letting a man marry a plant?

Hmmm, that depends... are we talking common houseplants, wild ferns, shrubbery, or even trees?

	18-05-2004 21:26									#94
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Justice and rationality are exclusive of one another?

More like linearly independent.

	18-05-2004 21:39									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh Bitterness? What bitterness? It was a simple question.

If you're going to let man and woman marry, why stop there? At which point do you stop, power tools?

	18-05-2004 21:42									#96
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I love my wife less today.

	18-05-2004 21:43									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Asher What's next, is the government going to raze churches and slaughter Christians?

You say the nicest things.

	18-05-2004 21:43									#98
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Marriage is zero-sum, the more gays marry the less marriage-ness straights get.

	18-05-2004 21:44									#99
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With any luck, you'll soon have a divorce and start paying more taxes.

	18-05-2004 21:45									#100
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun BTW -- what specific NE states are going to recognize gay marriages from Massachussetts?

New York was the only one mentioned specifically, but the announcer definately said states, the plural.

	18-05-2004 21:45									#101
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I love my wife less today.

Does she know?

	18-05-2004 21:46									#102
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Why do you think God put you in contact with Apolyton, Rogan Josh?

	18-05-2004 21:46									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Marriage is zero-sum, the more gays marry the less marriage-ness straights get.

On that logic, the population growth over the last century ought to have pretty much wiped out the average marriageness per couple in any case.

	18-05-2004 21:47									#104
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quote: Why do you think God put you in contact with Apolyton, Rogan Josh?

God hates Poly?

	18-05-2004 21:48									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist On that logic, the population growth over the last century ought to have pretty much wiped out the average marriageness per couple in any case.

Marriageness is critical to society, it helps our children become productive members of society, showing them first-hand how to proceed through divorce courts, which employ countless courageous lawyers and judges. Without it, society would crumble.

	18-05-2004 21:49									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Why do you think God put you in contact with Apolyton, Rogan Josh?

To make all you sinners repent!

...although if God really were a gay Canadian.....

	18-05-2004 21:50									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh To make all you sinners repent! ...although if God really were a gay Canadian.....

No more outrageous than a hippy Israeli.

	18-05-2004 21:52									#108
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you right-wing conservative anti-zionist! (...can God be anti-Zionist...?)

	18-05-2004 21:52									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Rogan Josh Does she know?

No, because she's paying too much attention to the cat. Ever since gay mariage became legal, our marriage has gone to hell.

	18-05-2004 21:55									#110
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Think yourself lucky it is still illegal for her to marry the cat....

	18-05-2004 22:51									#111
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Justice and rationality are exclusive of one another?

They're not equivalent.

	18-05-2004 22:53									#112
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara New York was the only one mentioned specifically, but the announcer definately said states, the plural.

Unless and until there's a constitutional amendment, those states who don't recognize are generally compellable by the Full Faith and Credit Clause to recognize those marriages, whether they like it or not.

	18-05-2004 22:56									#113
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quote: Originally posted by mindseye Did anyone actually measure the damage which has occurred so far to the traditional institution of marriage? The erosion of our national values? The sanctity of the American family?

Well, I can tell you that I love my fiancee less. Our fast-approaching marriage is now meaningless. And I've broken out in weeping boils.


Wait a minute... no, that's what I WISH were happening. I get confused sometimes.

	18-05-2004 23:02									#114
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quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Unless and until there's a constitutional amendment, those states who don't recognize are generally compellable by the Full Faith and Credit Clause to recognize those marriages, whether they like it or not.

That' what I thought, but there's a gay legal website that says maybe not.

For example, if you trveled through Illinois with your slave, you could keep him (pre 13th Amendment). But if you tried to settle in Illinois with your slaves, they'd be freed. FFC doesn't force you to accept what you don't accept. It forces you to accept what you do accept, even if it was done in another state.

	18-05-2004 23:21									#115
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That' what I thought, but there's a gay legal website that says maybe not. For example, if you trveled through Illinois with your slave, you could keep him (pre 13th Amendment). But if you tried to settle in Illinois with your slaves, they'd be freed. FFC doesn't force you to accept what you don't accept. It forces you to accept what you do accept, even if it was done in another state.

That's a matter of establishing residency. If a gay couple married in Massachusetts later move to a state that excludes them from marriage, it's a bit tougher.

With respect to receiving new entitlements from the new state of residency, they have a fairly tough time. With respect to recognition of previously existing entitlements, the new state of residency can't invalidate what was legitimately acquired in the previous state of residency.

This happens a lot in heterosexual marriages where the couple moves to several different states with differing community property rules. Say you acquire a community interest in assets during your residency in California, then move to Montana, which is not a community property state. Assets aquired during the Montana residency don't have a community interest attached, but Montana doesn't have the authority to quash or otherwise negate the community interests acquired during the period of residency in California. Same thing if the couple moves back to California, California doesn't have any authority to create a community interest in assets aquired during residence in a non-community property state.

People tend to be misinformed about that sort of marital property issue - I've heard lots of people spout off about how when you marry someone in California, they get half title to everything you own. Not true - they get a community interest in any appreciation in value during the course of the marriage, but not a community interest in the underlying separate asset, unless you give them that interest.

	18-05-2004 23:59									#116
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How does this affect the Defense of Marriage Act??

	19-05-2004 00:13									#117
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I'm just wondering if this will create a successful challenge to the DoMA.

	19-05-2004 00:22									#118
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What about bisexual marriage?

	19-05-2004 00:27									#119
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same difference

	19-05-2004 00:31									#120
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So, what happens if you get married, realize you are bisexual, but would be more comfortable in the body of the opposite sex. Thus, you get a sex change. Are you still married or did the sex change change your marriage into an ILLEGAL gay, and thus disgusting , one?