 |
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
 |
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Jaguar
MrFun, the democratic presidents and candidates for president have done absolutely nothing for you guys. Not once in their history. |
Bullshit. Let's talk about how Clinton prohibited the discrimination against gay employees of the Federal government. That right there is far more than any Republican president has done for gays. Clinton hired more than 150 openly gay and lesbian appointees, granted asylum for gays and lesbians facing persecution in other countries, and endorsed the passage of the Employment Non Discrimination Act.
Many of the important things Clinton did were also symbolic, but they conveyed a powerful, important message. Clinton spoke out against gay discrimination in the State of the Union address, he hosted a White House conference on hate crimes, he spoke out on anti-gay ballot initiatives, he appointed the first openly gay U.S. ambassador and the first out black lesbian federal judge, and he issued the first gay pride month proclamation.
Now, did he do all he could? No. But I have no doubt that we would not have the same level of acceptance of gays and lesbians in the U.S. today were it not for his presidency, which raised the bar on government recognition of and support of gay Americans and issues.
Last edited by Boris Godunov on 20-05-2004 at 19:43
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
|
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
|
|
I never said Clinton didn't give into political pressure on those two instances. But I would hardly call it pandering to homophobia. He basically was innoculating himself in his first term against the Christian right. Remember that DADT was a fiasco largely brought about by the gay activist groups, who forced the issue early on in Clinton's presidency. The administration was not ready for the issue at that point, and when it encountered the staunch resistance from the GOP and Sam Nunn, there was little that could be done that wouldn't end in a fiasco, one way or another. The shrillness of gay groups ensured public support wasn't there, and Clinton couldn't take a more forceful stance without jeopardizing his entire agenda. Remember how successfully the GOP exploited the issue in 1994 to help win control of Congress.
DoMA was purely a political move, as it was a deliberate trap set by the GOP during an election year to pander to their supporters. When a president is faced with a veto-proof majority on a controversial issue during an election year, there's not much else he can do.
Clinton was clearly not homophobic, but he was an extremely clever politician. When you weigh the good with bad, overall his administration simply must qualify as good for gay issues.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Boris Godunov
|
|
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:36
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
No, Clinton was not homophobic, but by giving into political pressure, as you have pointed out, he WAS pandering to homophobia. |
No, he wasn't. I don't think you know what that even means. You can only pander to people, not a thing. Clinton's moves were mean to appease the majority of Americans, not the homophobic elements of the right wing. Despite what you may think, many people--in fact, a majority of Americans--opposed integrating gays into the military and supported DoMA, for whatever reasons. Clinton's political moves were firmly in line with majority opinion, whatever else they may be. DADT was a compromise to save his agenda, and DoMA was something that couldn't be avoided thanks to a veto-proof majority.
I'm sure it's a lot easier to vastly oversimplify the situations and gnash teeth over lost opportunities, but that neglects the reality of the situations and ignores the fact that presidents have to compromise on issues to secure their long term agenda goals. If your entire administrative agenda is jeopardized by one issue, you're going to try and find a compromise rather than have all you want to do flushed down the toilet.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36.
Apolyton Time is 00:36. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
19-05-2004 00:32
, one? 
:
|