01-12-2004 23:16									#271
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7 new signatures in the past 4 hours from the German Webring!

	02-12-2004 00:52									#272
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Do we have anyone on the list from the Spanish civilization site? It's a part of Apolyton but it is sort of independent to the rest and I don't see a Civ2 source code petition thread on their forum. It might have slipped by them.

Unfortunately my Spanish ain't very good. German and French? Yes. Spanish? nada

	02-12-2004 01:37									#273
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I think Jasev, Yaro, and Pablo took care of them and I think the vast majority of them are bilingual and post here anyways.

	02-12-2004 02:04									#274
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle I think Jasev, Yaro, and Pablo took care of them and I think the vast majority of them are bilingual and post here anyways.

yea. i remember that yaroslav opened a thread talking about this source code petition idea.
many members of the spanish site have already "signed" the petition. donīt worry about it

	02-12-2004 02:08									#275
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quote: Originally posted by Harry Tuttle Thank you for volunteering Cyrion!

Now I should have guessed it would end like that...

OK, I'll do that, but I hope it's not too urgent: I'm right now overwhelmed by work + moving, so that means that between overtine and packing boxes, I won't have time for that for a few days...

I'll try to do that on Saturday, if my gf allows me to stop packing...

	02-12-2004 02:15									#276
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quote: Originally posted by academia yea. i remember that yaroslav opened a thread talking about this source code petition idea. many members of the spanish site have already "signed" the petition. donīt worry about it

No worries then

	02-12-2004 03:44									#277
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quote: Originally posted by Cyrion Now I should have guessed it would end like that... OK, I'll do that, but I hope it's not too urgent: I'm right now overwhelmed by work + moving, so that means that between overtine and packing boxes, I won't have time for that for a few days... I'll try to do that on Saturday, if my gf allows me to stop packing...

OK cool. Remember, lift with your knees...

	02-12-2004 07:55									#278
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Curious. I notice you all noticed the sale of rights to the Civ franchise, but are you going to wait and see who bought them, and if they bought the source code as well?

Atari still owns rights to publish the old civs - including civ2 - until oct. 2005, but I doubt they own the rights to the source code at this point - unless the developer of the game has always owned them, if it's like a lot of other games it probably does.

Microprose, is now be owned by infogrames/atari if I recall (or was bought by them anyhow)- I forget how that worked out exactly. So perhaps atari still owns the source code, and will always?

	02-12-2004 08:26									#279
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 Curious. I notice you all noticed the sale of rights to the Civ franchise, but are you going to wait and see who bought them, and if they bought the source code as well? Atari still owns rights to publish the old civs - including civ2 - until oct. 2005, but I doubt they own the rights to the source code at this point - unless the developer of the game has always owned them, if it's like a lot of other games it probably does. Microprose, is now be owned by infogrames/atari if I recall (or was bought by them anyhow)- I forget how that worked out exactly. So perhaps atari still owns the source code, and will always?

The last thing we heard, according to an article CapTVK found was that the rights to the old titles will remain with Infogrames/Atari. One can only assume that the Civ2 source still rests with them.

	02-12-2004 11:50									#280
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For the moment Atari/Infogrames still has full ownership, they've only sold the rights to Civ4 to an unknown party. That part is certain. The article isn't totally clear on what happens to the older titles after october 2005. Do they remain with Atari/Infogrames or are they transferred to the new party as well? What we do know for certain is that right now Atari is in full control. There isn't point on speculating about the "new party" until we know who they are and what their plan is.

Perhaps MarkG or one of Apolyton's news staff could contact (email/phone!?) Atari's media contact (Nancy Bushkin) to get some clarification on the future ownership of Civ and the sourcecode.

CONTACT:
Atari, Inc.
Media:
Nancy Bushkin, 212/726-4222
nancy.bushkin@atari.com

Last edited by CapTVK on 02-12-2004 at 11:56

	04-12-2004 09:22									#281
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So far, there have been 18 new signatures from the German Civ2 Webring. Very good turnout.

	04-12-2004 23:56									#282
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Here's another morale boost for those in the field and a motivation for those still on the sidelines: earlier this year (march 2004) the JA2 source code was licensed under an open source licence!


http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/cgi-...ews.cgi?newsall

quote: JA2 source code to be released! According to a news report published by the German magazine "PC Games" and Avault, Strategy First will release the source code for "Jagged Alliance 2" together with "JA2 Wildfire" expansion due this spring. To quote Chris Camfield, the former Gameplay Programmer of Sirtech, it's a "pretty cool move" on SFi's part. Also according to Chris, the sources are written in C, which made a couple of Bear's Pit natives very-very happy. If confirmed and materialized, the move would bolt JA2's place into the "All Times Gaming Hall of Fame", together with an esquisite crowd (Doom, Panzer General and a few others) of oldies but goldies. And the ensuing user modifications will keep the interest alive just enough for SFi to develop the sequel to this great game, namely JA3. We can asssume that the decision to pack the source code with "JA2:Wildfire" was partly due to the huge success "JA2:Urban Chaos" (free) usermade mod has had. Only this kind of move could've matched JA2UC's popularity. And only this move could've made the MOD Squad happier than ever. Afterall, in the end, everyone will get what they want. The modders - their much wanted source code. SFi, the respect of the Jagged Alliance community and some nice sales. (Shanga, February 26, 2004)

The license that was used for release and a short discussion about it can be found here. After a quick scan I would say it's decent enough, emphasis on educational purposes with no commerical distribution.
http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/ubb/...p?ubb=get_topic;f=39;t=000006

*edit* links are too long. Either go to the JA2 source public debate or the whiteboard forum at http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/cgi-....cgi?category=9


/Personal condemnation mode on:/

What!? The JA2 source has been released! CapTVK, You fool! You LOVE JA2 , how couldn't you have known! It's been out there for months! I can't believe you missed this!


/Personal condemnation mode off:/

	05-12-2004 01:10									#283
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The promise of code springs eternal!

	05-12-2004 15:25									#284
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quote: Originally posted by jim panse I got your PM Harry .... I already responded to the thread at the German forums ...

fine... when u will post uīre update for ww1 there?

	07-12-2004 00:22									#285
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Harry,

I think one of the aspects in argument (4) could be emphasized extra: educational value.

I've come to that conclusion after browsing and reading some of the comments of the JA2 source. Apart from the actual sourcecode itself it also comes with comments describing various functions and gamemechanisms. If you start to follow some of those comments you also learn how specific parts of the code were created/changed and how programmers co-operated with each other, handled and discussed them. Quite fun and educational because you see how people (programmers) worked together.


"What if you're not a programmer?" Well...

I've just finished studying the holy grail for any JA2 fan: Strategic AI.C. That's the part that handles the general strategy in JA2. Apart from the code itself it also comes with some long comments describing the underlying philosophy for the AI and gamebalance. It answer questions as to why Deirdranna just doesn't crush your petty band of mercs right at the start but suddenly becomes very agressive at the end. Interesting for non-coders as well.



Now... try to imagine that for Civ2/ToT!

Wouldn't you, apart from the code, be interested to know how the designers and coders worked on their code and read about their motivations for certain game functions? It would be the final "behind the scenes with Civ2"

Last edited by CapTVK on 07-12-2004 at 01:00

	13-12-2004 12:11									#286
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Harry Turtle,

you seem to have forgotten to scribble down my name and e-mail address to the petition, despite you said you got it on CGN.

Well, again: Rasbelin - rasbelin@stellapolaris.info

	13-12-2004 12:19									#287
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin Harry Turtle, you seem to have forgotten to scribble down my name and e-mail address to the petition, despite you said you got it on CGN. Well, again: Rasbelin - rasbelin@stellapolaris.info

You're already on there Rasbelin. and, uh, it's Tuttle, not Turtle.

	13-12-2004 12:24									#288
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This is 3 months old, but I want to respond to this piece of typical CapTVK pragmatism:

quote: Originally posted by CapTVK This idea has been suggested before. A heartfelt piece of advice is in place. DO NOT TRY TO REINVENT THE WHEEL! Does Stella Polaris say anything?

Sheesh... You seem to be still so negative about other projects, despite they don't even compete with your dear ol' FreeCiv. I hope you got it from my old The Column writing, but in fact Stella Polaris was quite different from SMAC and wasn't anything comparable with reinventing something that already exists, rather than taking a step forward in strategy games.

I find your comment highly insulting, as frankly the failures of the Stella Polaris project had nothing to do with what it was based on and its goals. Still: primarily we had to lay down due to lack of manpower. Plus other important commitments many of us had. As I have said, we at least showed that there's something beyond SMAC to be achieved and that stellar colonisation hasn't yet been fully excavated. FreeCiv has nothing to do with this. Nor has concentrating resources only to projects directly immitating current commercial games or developing derivatives of them, anything to do with this.

I can agree at one thing however. We did at an earlier stage have a very SMAC related view on what we wanted to develop, but as time passed and we got more in-depth with the concepts, we started over and laid out Stella Polaris as a fully independent project in terms of what was the source of ideas.

Now back on-topic and no more StP bashing, please.

	13-12-2004 15:39									#289
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Yes, can we keep the topic in sight?
There is no room in our community for this kind of fighting.

@CapTVK:
We all know you love your project, good though it is;
but let us not all initiate WW4 over it, neh?

And by the way, if the CIV2-ToT source code did appear -
I reckon there would be no shortage of programmers to play with it...

	22-12-2004 06:50									#290
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*signs petition*

	22-12-2004 07:51									#291
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Colonel Fox has been added! What's your email, we need it for it to become official. You can PM it to me if you wish it to remain non public.

	22-12-2004 17:58									#292
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add me in
my email is "broken_erika8812@hotmail.com"

	22-12-2004 18:32									#293
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Hmmm, I have forgot to phone Yaroslav...I'll do ASAP, and ask him about this...

	26-12-2004 01:28									#294
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count me in!

	26-12-2004 04:25									#295
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I dare to suggest that these newbies signing the petition could be *cough* DLs/fakes/trolls. *cough*

Sorry about this OT, but couldn't resist.

	26-12-2004 05:30									#296
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only half troll

	26-12-2004 06:20									#297
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin I dare to suggest that these newbies signing the petition could be *cough* DLs/fakes/trolls. *cough* Sorry about this OT, but couldn't resist.

Ahem, I would please remind anyone who signs the petition that in order for your signature to be "official" you need to include a valid email address.

Remember people, this petition is a document of TRUST between the people who own the source code and the people who sign the petition. If you wish to play games by using a DL then you are a loser. Pure and simple.

Anyways, for all those people who still would like to sign the petition, please do so. All it takes is a post with your email address.

Also, please do not try to create drama were there is none. I can validate about 100 people on this list myself just by the fact that they have a long history of posting on the various international Civ sites. Between myself and the other heavily involved people with the list I can say that the vast majority of the signatures are recognized as being made by real people.

And who knows, maybe we're actually attracting new members! What a thought.

Merry Christmas.

	06-01-2005 15:19									#298
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Sorry about being late! As explained at cdg, I've been awfully busy!

I'll try to contact the french site this week-end!

	06-01-2005 19:14									#299
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Ok cool.

	06-01-2005 21:41									#300
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Last time i checked i was a real person but i don't know for sure.
Mabe i am a fake but i think therefore but mabe i only think i think but then again i am thinking but mabe i only..oh my goodness i have gone crosseyed,

Last edited by Broken_Erika on 07-01-2005 at 03:05