21-05-2004 00:00									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Have you guys actually been reading the articles past the word "abuse"?

Yes, have you?

	21-05-2004 00:01									#32
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I see the pictures -- and they speak THOUSANDS of words.

	21-05-2004 00:12									#33
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I see the pictures -- and they speak THOUSANDS of words.

Like those really make you flench much.

	21-05-2004 00:14									#34
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um . . . . . .



For me, yes -- I was shocked and disgusted with the pictures I have seen.

But then, I might be an unusual person because I still have some sense of decency and so on.

	21-05-2004 00:32									#35
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I've read countless stories and viewed enough photos to realize that, frankly, to compare what happened to those Iraqi prisoners to a college hazing is, to be polite, silly.

Gatekeeper

	21-05-2004 00:41									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper I've read countless stories and viewed enough photos to realize that, frankly, to compare what happened to those Iraqi prisoners to a college hazing is, to be polite, silly. Gatekeeper

Agreed.

	21-05-2004 00:42									#37
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**** being polite -- making such a comparison is outrageous.

	21-05-2004 00:46									#38
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun **** being polite -- making such a comparison is outrageous.

How'd you get to be so sheltered in life?

	21-05-2004 00:47									#39
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My life is not sheltered.

	21-05-2004 00:49									#40
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So, you agree with Gatekeeper, but disagree with MrFun, even though what they said was identical? Apocalypse, your reading comprehension scores weren't that high, were they?

	21-05-2004 00:52									#41
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I think I'm some terrible person because I'm more angry about this than Gatekeeper??

	21-05-2004 01:27									#42
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No, you're a terrible person because you're fom Iowa.

	21-05-2004 01:29									#43
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And it angers you that I'm carpetbagging my way through rural Illinois -- your home state, doesn't it?

	21-05-2004 01:33									#44
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Technically, they didn't say the exact same thing. Gatekeeper said comparing them was silly and though we know what he meant... his statement could be read the other way (ie, hazing is much worse and cannot be compared with the Iraqi torture) without changing any of the words.

	21-05-2004 01:34									#45
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I suppose . . .

	21-05-2004 01:35									#46
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Listen to me... I'm a lawyer in training. I'm being skilled in twisting phrases .

	21-05-2004 01:36									#47
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quote: None deadly things include... Knives up rectums, buring **** into people's arms, hooking people's skin with wires, downing large amounts of certain foods, being in a hot room with no ventalation while doing various workouts, held under water until going limp, put in a locker/truck for hours to sometimes over a day, etc....

...where the **** did you go to college?

	21-05-2004 01:43									#48
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Better answer.

	21-05-2004 02:41									#49
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quote: Technically, they didn't say the exact same thing. Gatekeeper said comparing them was silly and though we know what he meant... his statement could be read the other way (ie, hazing is much worse and cannot be compared with the Iraqi torture) without changing any of the words.

Exactly.

Even with *widely reported* deaths attributed to hazing in college alone, the figures are at least twice as much yearly as this prison.

quote: ...where the **** did you go to college?

Not all of those happened at my college. There are things on that level that happened at my college that I haven't mentioned though.

	21-05-2004 02:43									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Exactly. Even with *widely reported* deaths attributed to hazing in college alone, the figures are at least twice as much yearly as this prison.

We're talking about two completely different things, that are carried out in entirely different circumstances and situations.

	21-05-2004 02:46									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Apocalypse Even with *widely reported* deaths attributed to hazing in college alone, the figures are at least twice as much yearly as this prison.

They're widely reported cuz you say they are? I hear of one or two a year, out of the millions of students who go to college. A couple dozen Itaqis out of 40,000 is a much more sever number.

	21-05-2004 02:48									#52
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When someone points out and wants to then discuss human rights violations involving prisoners (whom many are innocent, but detained), and then someone waves his arms and shouts, "Oh, but look over here! We have people forcing others into dangerous behavior in colleges!"


I don't see the purpose for this, other than to divert concern from the issue that was to be discussed.

	21-05-2004 02:52									#53
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara They're widely reported cuz you say they are? I hear of one or two a year, out of the millions of students who go to college. A couple dozen Itaqis out of 40,000 is a much more sever number.

Actually I meant they aren't widely reported. Sorry I mistyped. Quickly google and you can easily find stats from 25 to 50 a year along with numerous reports on how people are too scared to report hazing instances.

	21-05-2004 02:55									#54
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Apoc -- so why not create a separate, RELEVANT thread about this topic?

	21-05-2004 03:02									#55
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun Apoc -- so why not create a separate, RELEVANT thread about this topic?

Because you all were really whining about relative stuff.

	21-05-2004 03:36									#56
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Apoc, I didn't say it before... but you are an idiot! If you think that hazing is even comparable to the MUCH worse torture and humilation that US soldiers perpetrated on the Iraqis you are mental!

	21-05-2004 04:03									#57
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Where'd Berzerker get the moral relativism thing from?

	21-05-2004 04:57									#58
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Kucinich, justifying or dismissing torture by pointing to murder is an example of moral relativism.

quote: please, oh please, tell me that those people weren't stupid enough to fire their guns into the air in celebration during a time of war...

Today I heard they were and that the US has asked Iraqis to stop doing this, but I suppose these people felt a bit isolated from what is happening in the east since they live way out in some small town in the western desert and probably didn't expect to see a US helicopter bearing down on them. But according to US spokesmen, we were launching an attack on a safe house for foreign fighters along a "rat route", i.e., a road from Syria being used by foreign fighters to enter Iraq and these people were mistaken for foreign fighters. It sounds somewhat similar to the mistake made at Wounded Knee when US soldiers guarding the Indians allegedly mistook a ceremony held by the Indians as a precursor for war.

	21-05-2004 05:01									#59
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Why the hell didn't you bring this up in 1861 ?

	21-05-2004 05:07									#60
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Just heard of another hazing that occurs everyday at college campuses:

quote: A military intelligence analyst who recently completed duty at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq (news - web sites) said Wednesday that the 16-year-old son of a detainee there was abused by U.S. soldiers to break his father's resistance to interrogators. The analyst said the teenager was stripped naked, thrown in the back of an open truck, driven around in the cold night air, splattered with mud and then presented to his father at Abu Ghraib, the prison at the center of the scandal over abuse of Iraqi detainees. Upon seeing his frail and frightened son, the prisoner broke down and cried and told interrogators he would tell them whatever they wanted, the analyst said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...dtogetdadtotalk

Absolutely disgusting.