 |
| |
|
|
Berzerker
|
 |
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:36
|
|
quote:
What do you mean, "allow"? It just says there is nothing objectively immoral about it. |
By "allow" I mean consistent with. If morality is relative, then I'm allowed to condemn one crime while dismissing another based soley on my personal POV, not on any objective standard. For example, if objective morality says murder is immoral then I cannot condemn or dismiss murder when it suits my agenda. I must be consistent...
quote:
What do you mean, it "depends" on that? |
Moral relativism depends on what I think without regard to any standard or principle that applies to us all, it depends only on what I think and hypocrisy cannot indict my POV because morality is relative - I decide when murder is immoral. Objective morality would require me to condemn every murder, not just the murders I oppose.
quote:
According to one moral code, hypocrisy is immoral; according to another, it is immoral. It just isn't objectively either. |
Huh? Both codes there say hypocrisy is immoral. Moral relativism would say that while hypocrisy is immoral to John Doe's morality, it need not be immoral to Jane Doe's morality and that is a valid position for both John and Jane because morality is relative.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Ramo
|
 |
Austin, Texas, USA
Oct 1999
time: 23:36
|
|
quote:
But does moral relativism allow for hypocrisy? If morality is relative, then it depends on the changing whims of those making judgements, i.e., no principle need apply.
Whatever standard I apply to you need not apply to me because morality is relative, not objective. Objectivity requires that the standard I apply to you also apply to me... |
No. Moral subjectivity implies that no set of morals are absolutely valid.
Whether one's morality is inconsistent or not is an entirely seperate issue. One can be a racist who thinks that it's ok to do these things to Iraqis and also believe that his morality is the objective morality.
Last edited by Ramo on 21-05-2004 at 06:17
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Berzerker
|
|
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:36
|
|
quote:
I said absolutely valid. And I didn't say that it precludes inconsistency. Just as objective morality doesn't preclude inconsistency. |
There's a difference between valid and absolutely valid? That's the point, if moral relativism does not preclude inconsistency then it allows for hypocrisy which is by it's nature, inconsistent. And objective morality does preclude inconsistency; as you said, it is based on the notion of "intrinsic" morality. That means there is a morality that depends on something more than my personal and changing whims.
quote:
I'm not sure what you're asking. I don't think it's objective; again, I think there is no objective morality. Why he believes that it's objective is irrelevant to the point. |
That was your assertion, that the racist believed his inconsistency was morally objective.
quote:
Consistency has nothing to do whether you believe morality is objective or subjective.
Again, entirely seperate issues. |
But related for those who believe in moral relativism. If there is no set of valid morals, then moral relativism allows for hypocrisy. Let's say culture A practices slavery and culture B abhors it, the latter cannot morally condemn the former because morality is relative. If you say I'm wrong then you're also saying the same morality applies to both cultures, i.e., morality is not relative and consistency ir required.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Berzerker
|
|
topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:36
|
|
quote:
Hypocrisy isn't intrinsically immoral according to objective morality either. It may be immoral to your morality, which you believe to be objective, just as it may be immoral to my morality, which I believe to be subjective. |
But hypocrisy is immoral because objective morality requires consistency, that's what distinguishes objective morality from relative morality. As you said, moral relativism denies an "intrinsic" morality while moral objectivism embraces it. If morality is intrinsic, it depends on a standard that applies to us all, not on personal whim.
quote:
And again, objective morality is the idea that there is some morality is absolutely valid. Nothing prevents that from being a racist morality. |
Only if the racist believes it is moral for another race to murder him based on his skin color, that is the first of 2 requirements - consistency - with logic being the second.
And we know racists don't believe that...
quote:
I'd bet that Hannity, O'Reilly, and Limbaugh would insist that their respective moralities are absolutely valid. |
Do you believe your morality is invalid? Their ignorance of morality is not an indictment of moral objectivism...
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36.
Apolyton Time is 00:36. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
21-05-2004 05:09
|