22-05-2004 05:58									#1
	Laptop Game turn tracking thread #2 Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I'm back, have played, have sent and, per Darsnan's suggestion, have started a new thread.

	22-05-2004 08:22									#2
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Another first!

	23-05-2004 00:10									#3
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I didn't see the sign-up for this one...
What are the factions//settings?

	23-05-2004 01:02									#4
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Enigma, this thread is a continuation of another thread because we hit 500 posts. The game started a long time ago. If you're asking about the startup we've been discussing in the first thread, it will be a rematch with the same players. Good luck finding another game.

	23-05-2004 02:59									#5
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Here it is, all the info in one post. Please correct any mistakes.

Laptop II
(same turn order as Laptop I)

Net Warrior: Free Drones
Chip: CMN's choice
jtsisyoda: Peacekeepers
Rubin: Cybernetic Consciousness

Perhaps the AIs should be tweaked slightly. The reason is that I would like to see some of our Laptop I factions in Laptop II--especially the Morganites and the Gaians. AI Morgan can be terribly weak, hence this faction may be given a slightly better starting position. Apart from the Probe Cruiser I prefer no CMN modifications.

The last AI faction may be the University (unless we are playing against Provost Chip). Additional faction choices are the Believer's, the Hive and the Spartans; their SE choices are often difficult to match, thus making the AI more aggressive. I think Svensgaard is a little PBEM problematic and I would prefer if no Pirates were present in Laptop II.

Intentional rioting for the purposes of probing the base after it converts is prohibited.

Large map, no teams, no cooperative victory, 50-70% Ocean, and most definitely average native life.

Weak erosion, average cloud cover. No random events. No Unity Survey. Look first. Directed research.

Probe Cruiser available by default upon the discovery of Doctrine: Initiative (improves AI naval probe warfare)

Other rules for play that only the players need, we can go by rules for Laptop I.

	23-05-2004 12:09									#6
	Remove this text

2216 to Net Warrior.

The setup for laptop II looks fine. There is a single issue that I'd like to stress for our kind CMN Darsnan:

Random events should be turned OFF. If random events indeed were turned off in Laptop I something in the setup must have put the random events back on. Darsnan, can you confirm if random events were turned on in Laptop I?

That's it. I'm ready for Laptop II.

	23-05-2004 22:45									#7
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2217 to Gaians

Re: Laptop ll
Let the games begin.

	23-05-2004 23:47									#8
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Uh, President Net Warrior .... 13 extra save/loads?

Turn played and passed.

Last edited by Chip_Buckner on 24-05-2004 at 00:23

	24-05-2004 01:36									#9
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I guess I used the wrong save to play my turn.

When I receive a turn it has always been my habit to save it immediately as the "real" turn and then to "relaod" the original turn in order to experiment with it. I am always dilligent to never uncover information that should not be available to me. This particular move offered a lot of different former move possibilities what with my trying to save my empire from drowning. I guess I took a look at 13 different senarios before I was satisfied and went back to play the "real " turn. As far as I knew I was loading the "real" turn. I somehow made a very embarrissing yet innocent mistake and lost track of the "real" save when I played my turn.

On a separate note, I have been playing on, 2 vs 1 since Uni's demise, because of, what I preceived to be, my vastly superior infrastructure. I felt that I still had real chances of winning. Now, the unexpectedly fast onset of the effects of global warming has devistated my population, my terriforming, and my plans. I see from the power graph that noone else has been adversly impacted by this, and so I am no longer optimistic as to the out come of the game. I think I no longer have a reasonabale chance vs a Gaian-Rubinite team.

If either The Gaians or The Rubinites are playing for an individual victory, I'll play on of course, but if you two are playing for a team victory then it's time for me to resign.

	24-05-2004 02:45									#10
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2217 to Net Warrior.

I officially propose a cooperative victory between the Gaians and the Rubinites. To achieve this quickly, Lord Chip may convene the Planetary Council by M.Y. 2218 and propose that all factions unite behind him as Supreme Leader.

Should the Peacekeepers support the Gaians Lord Chip may rule supremely by M.Y. 2219. Hence, the end of the Laptop I Epic.

(At least, I hope this is sufficient for a cooperative victory...)

(Edit: In case Hotmail is causing problems the file can be accessed here: (Edit 2: File removed.))

Last edited by Rubin on 24-05-2004 at 06:44

	24-05-2004 05:37									#11
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2218 to Gaians

Global warming has some wild gyrations to it. Things looked a little better on my continent this turn, terriform wise.

	24-05-2004 07:51									#12
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2218 to Rubin.

I agree with your assessment as to the ultimate outcome of the game and would love to oblige, but ... when calling a council, I am not given the opportunity to suggest that you should unite behind me as Supreme Ruler.

NW, given your improved situation, do you want to "unresign"? I think with my hydroponics pods coming on in five years, it is just a matter of time.

	24-05-2004 10:37									#13
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Sorry about the global warming messing you up, NW. It was either obliterate bases and raise the sea, or let your opponents have all my cities with population and facilities intact.

	24-05-2004 18:57									#14
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I was well aware of Yoda’s plans to self destruct his bases as needed and that that would result in global warming. Due to my rank inexperience with this phenomenon, I underestimated its effects. I was slow to react and have suffered the consequences. This is no ones fault but my own.

I’ve been thinking about this situation since my offer to resign post. If the game ends now then I will remain relatively inexperienced in dealing with global warming. So, if you both will indulge me, what with game mechanics not permitting a joint victory and all, I’d like to retract my resignation and try to learn some more about this game.

We’ve never formally discussed the endgame. Unless I make a huge comeback, I suggest that we continue to play until game mechanics allow a “unite behind me” victory (which may not take too much longer). So, what do you say guys, a few more turns while we await the coming of Laptop ll?

	24-05-2004 22:39									#15
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Rubin is having harddisc failure and has asked me to inform you that he is trying to solve the problem as quickly as possible.

Please have patience

Best regards
Shaken

	25-05-2004 06:34									#16
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quote: Originally posted by jtsisyoda Laptop II (same turn order as Laptop I) Net Warrior: Free Drones Chip: CMN's choice jtsisyoda: Peacekeepers Rubin: Cybernetic Consciousness

As far as Chip Buckner is concerned for Faction choice, instead of being the Green environmentally friendly Lord Chip (as you were in LPT 1) you are now the rabidly, psychotically Green Prophet Cha Chip?


The AI's in this one will be Spartans, Believers, and Uni's. The map is very "interesting", and I should be done building it tomorrow night, at which time playtesting will commence. I'll have the game out to you before this weekend. FYI.


D

	25-05-2004 07:42									#17
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That will be "Cha Cha Chip".

Just a warning on timing. I'm leaving town the first weekend in June to go to the east coast for a college reunion. I'll be out all the next week and weekend. I'll be back Sunday, June 13.

So, either move quickly, or take your time.

Cha Cha

	25-05-2004 10:14									#18
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I'll be out of town this weekend, then again for several days around June 10-13 or so.

	26-05-2004 06:31									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Chip_Buckner That will be "Cha Cha Chip". Just a warning on timing. I'm leaving town the first weekend in June to go to the east coast for a college reunion. I'll be out all the next week and weekend. I'll be back Sunday, June 13.

I should have this game ready by tomorrow night at the latest. Since IIRC I gave everyone Formers in LpTp1, even thought this negated a Gaian advantage, do you mind me again giving everyone Formers, or would this be in bad "Form"?
btw I will be OOT this weekend as well - gotta give Grandma time with the kids....

D

	26-05-2004 06:47									#20
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Hey, Domai would never object to starting out with formers. Cha Cha, if I were you I'd be objecting like crazy.

	26-05-2004 07:42									#21
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I wondered about that last time around, but decided (1) that Darsnan had designed what he thought was a balanced game and (2) that I was new enough at this that I really had no cause to object.

I've gotten over those reservations. At the risk of being thought a whiner, if everyone else gets my key advantage, do I get every other player's key advantage?

	26-05-2004 08:09									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Chip_Buckner If everyone else gets my key advantage, do I get every other player's key advantage?

You do not get everyone elses key advantage in return. Although I thought I set up a balanced game in LpTp1, why I didn't ask everyones opinion on the subject of Formers at that time, either. This is why I am asking the question now, as you all are becoming more experienced as PBEM players, and the fine line between Factional advantages is becoming much more of an issue. Thus I simply think it a natural and fair approach in this edition of your game series that any players Factional choices are based on them exclusively receiving the benefits of that Factions advantages. Or, to phrase it slightly differently, why each Human starting Faction will receive 1 regular CP, 2 Speeder CPs' (to speed up the early game), and 3 scouts. Is this acceptable?
I am also thinking of calling this edition "LpTp2: the CrossRoads", based on how I've set it up. However, if someone else has a better name, why I have no objections - just let me know for when I set up the thread.


D

	26-05-2004 10:18									#23
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With this fast-playing group, we may not need to over-worry about speeding the early game. I'm ok not starting with formers.

	26-05-2004 22:46									#24
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Dear Laptop'ers:

I've regained internet access but still need to install the game. I'm sorry for the delay--actually, the harddisk failed while I was playing the last turn. Alas, everything is now lost.

I'll hope to have the turn forwarded soon and catch up on recent events.

---

Edit:

Regarding the Laptop II setup:

I'd suggest we start with just the normal 2 colony pods and a scout patrol. The only problem I see is the first available technology choices--especially the problem where a faction cannot start researching Centauri Ecology as first choice.

(If this becomes a problem I see no reason for Cha Cha Chip to complain on default faction technologies and letting us all have a former. The fact is that the Planet Cult is supposed to emerge 3-10 years after the other factions have made planetfall. )

However, 1 scout patrol and 2 colony pods is my preferred tartup setting--regardless of the initial available technology choices.

Last edited by Rubin on 27-05-2004 at 00:03

	27-05-2004 04:31									#25
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2218 to Net Warrior.

	28-05-2004 07:51									#26
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2219 to Gaians

Re: Laptop ll, before we kick off the game, would anyone other than me be interested in disabling The Empathic Guild and The Cloudbased Academy? Those two sure seem to imbalance the game. If not, no problem, I just thought I'd bring it up for discussion.

	28-05-2004 10:28									#27
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Re: EG and CBA, no preference.

	28-05-2004 10:33									#28
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I'd say we keep the Empath Guild and the Cloudbase Academy in the game.

Edit: 2219 passed to Net Warrior.

Last edited by Rubin on 28-05-2004 at 12:23

	28-05-2004 22:06									#29
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2220 to Gaians

	28-05-2004 23:37									#30
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I'm better off without CBA and EG, because I'll never be able to build them. That, however, is not the point. Each faction has its own strengths and weaknesses. If we play with everything set to "standard", we are playing the game as designed. When we start fiddling with things, there will be winners and losers.

I understand, therefore, that I will not get every faction's bonus. My question was rhetorical, intended to make the point that none of us should get the advantages that normally inhere to (are fundamentally and inseparately a part of) other factions. I must insist, therefore, that we not be given formers and that the factions that do not normally start with Centauri whatever-it-is have to research it. No formers for the environmental heathens!

We appear to have settled on a large map. Large maps favor builders. Because Cha Cha has a 10% industrial penalty, I have a faction that is decidely non-builder. By the time I find you, you are going to have big infrastructures and big armies in place. If--as appears to be the decision here--we play a large map, I am at a disadvantage. To re-balance the game, may I suggest either:
(1) revert to a standard-sized map;
(2) increase the native life to whatever the setting above "standard" is; or
(3) remove the Cult's 10% industrial penalty.
Options 1 & 2 give me a fighting chance as a momentum player. Option 3 makes us all into builders.