25-05-2004 20:11									#31
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Just suppose that the stronger of the two attacking fleets gets there first, and leaves before the other arrives. If they're the same strength then I'm stuck for any good ideas, unless the patented Jamski RNG can help me out.....

	25-05-2004 20:15									#32
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I was going to stick with whoever sends their orders first, fights first.

On reflection, its better to fight second though, against weaker opposition. And we want people to send their orders fast. We also want people to find allies when they attack...

So.

The first to send their orders in, will be the last to fight, and vice versa.

Or.

The stronger fleet fights first (gives fairer fights)

What do we decide?

I'm sure it won't be a common problem anyway.

-Jam

	25-05-2004 20:28									#33
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I say first to come fights last.

	25-05-2004 20:35									#34
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First in Last out works the best I think. You could say, first fleet arrives and notices another fleet incoming and "hides" on the far side of another planet, waits for the second arriving fleet to leave and the moves in for the opertunity

	25-05-2004 20:51									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Why should they fight first? They have no hostile intentions to each other.

True, but they don't have the intention to ally with each other, either.

Maybe a multi-sided fight?

	25-05-2004 20:54									#36
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Nah, too complicated. At worst they'll make an uneasy truce - after all they both have the same goal, the destruction of another player, and fighting each other will only make that goal less likely.

No multi-sided battles ever occurred in history that I heard of. Two sides always unite against the common enemy.

-Jam

	25-05-2004 20:54									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski And we want people to send their orders fast.

Some of us have other things to do in life.

	25-05-2004 20:59									#38
	Capturing Bases Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

New ship type: marine carrier (can be any size).
Cost: same as the size class.
Attack stength: 0
Defense strength: 1 (takes 1 hit to destroy)

The marine carrier stays out of the combat. If an attacker wins a fight against a defender with a marine carrier left, he can capture the enemy base. A captured base provides 2 BPs a turn, but cannot be counted towards shipbuilding purposes.

The orginal owner of the base does not need to recapture it. Once he wins the fight, the ownership automatically reverts back.

	25-05-2004 21:00									#39
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Do we start with any shields or spies?

	25-05-2004 21:00									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Two sides always unite against the common enemy.

Unless, of course, both sides want to capture the base.

	25-05-2004 21:07									#41
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New ship type: suicide rider (can be any size)
Cost: same as size class
Attack stength: special (see below)
Defense strength: 1 (takes 1 hit to destroy)

A suicide rider is a robotic ship that's filled with explosives and rig to self destruct on remote control. A suicide rider does not join in combat resolution. A suicide rider is destroyed if its side has no other ships left and the other side has one or more excess damage points. Each damage point destroys a suicide rider.

Each and every surviving suicide rider self destructs at the end of combat resolution, causing damage equal to 2x its size class. So a suicide rider of cruiser size causes 4 points of damage at the end of combat.

	25-05-2004 21:11									#42
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quote: Do we start with any shields or spies?

Nope, but you can build them more easily than in Nuclear War (i.e. you don't have to sacrifice too much)

quote: New ship type: marine carrier (can be any size).

All ships carry enough marines that in the case they attack an undefended system they can capture a base.

quote: Unless, of course, both sides want to capture the base

Ah - since bases can only be captured if undefended, then there will always be no enemy fleet in the system. This means we will have a fight between the two attackers as they try to claim the base.

quote: New ship type: suicide rider (can be any size)

No more ships!

The rules are now closed to any additions or modifications unless there is a loophole needs closing or an unclear situation needs resolving. I'm saying that because I know how much we love to discuss rules, and the game will never start. We can have a "council" after 5 turns and see what needs tinkering with, decided democratically by any surviving players.

-Jam

	25-05-2004 22:18									#43
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signup sent.

	25-05-2004 22:27									#44
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Do we send in just the pre-build orders or first turn orders also?

	25-05-2004 22:33									#45
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Just the prebuilt orders, then I'll post up a STARMAP! Wow! Then we'll have the first round.

Prebuilds from Smiley are fine.

WITH 8 PLAYERS NOW, SIGNUP IS CLOSED

-Jam

	25-05-2004 22:56									#46
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Good thing I got up early enough today.

	25-05-2004 23:08									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have prebuild orders from :

Trokair
Smiley
General Ludd
Duke o'York

I'm waiting for :

Urban Ranger
Skanky Burns
Spaced Cowboy
Ljcvetko

I also need base names from Ludd, or he'll get stuck with Ludd 1, Ludd 2 etc...

No stress with the orders, we're not running a hard schedule here. Read the rules through, workout what's a worthwile strat, think about it and PM me in the next 24 hours or so.

Who will be the next Galactic Overlord^tm?

-Jam

	25-05-2004 23:37									#48
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Start this when I'm not around why don't you.

Hehe, room for one more?

	26-05-2004 00:10									#49
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Can I still join?

	26-05-2004 00:18									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ok... let's be fair. If you can get your prebuild orders and base names to me before the 4 that I'm still waiting on, you get the places. First come, first served, and if we're having to wait on someone now, we'll be waiting on the during the game.

There are 4 slots free still.

Go for it boys

-Jam

	26-05-2004 00:22									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Did you edit the rules changes into the first post? I'm about to check them now.

	26-05-2004 00:23									#52
	Inflate your Upload Space

Ok, I've created one more slot, but I don't have any more colours that look different

-Jam

	26-05-2004 00:28									#53
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Spikie - some of them, not all of them.

And I've managed to add the "horriblepink" team. Everyone can play!

Sign-up really IS closed now.

-Jam

	26-05-2004 01:57									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Still have some questions boss.

Your use of the word "pre-build" confuses. Is this just the first turn, or is there some subset of orders that are not allowed.

You show "attack" as a special order. If I choose something else (like train spy), do my ships still defend? Hence I will always need an order of battle, correct?

Can I send in separate orders of battle for the attacking and defending fleets?

	26-05-2004 02:06									#55
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Hey wait, I'm waiting on sending in my orders, due to rules clarification.

I'll send in my city names.

	26-05-2004 02:24									#56
	Remove this text

Ok, prebuild is your use of the 20 starting BPs before the first round begins.

Your ships will always defend, so long as you have a standing order of battle, unless you put up the shield (then your ships will hide behind it) or they are off attacking someone else.

You can send OoB for attacking and defending fleets, yes. Whatever orders you give you will always need a current OoB, in case you are attacked, your captains need to have their orders and tactics ready.

-Jam

	26-05-2004 02:28									#57
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Jamski this hasn't really all sunk in yet, but I am sure you wont mind if I make some initial comments in my capacity as forum game balance nazi.

1) Shields need a buff. I think they need to do some damage to the attacker

2) Attacking needs a buff in general. Though this is a warlike group attacking leads to carnage on both sides, with the only reward being destroying 1 base for one opponent, whilst the others are chuckling in their bases. Bases being captured when you win a fight makes it much more reasonable.

	26-05-2004 02:45									#58
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Hmm...

We can make Base Shields do damage to the attacking fleet... hmm... how does *picks a number out the air* 6 hits sound? Weakest ships first as usual, of course.

As for attacking needing a buff... "realistically" speaking the defenders would have the advantage of defending a built up millitary base... but for the sake of balance I left bases unarmed....

I have it!

When you attack or defend you must specify which base you wish to attack. The defender must distribute his forces between his bases when he sends orders. This gives the attacker the advantage of force concentration.

Hmm... now its too hard to protect your bases... so let's make every base add +3 Lasers, +3 Fighters and +3 Torpedoes to any fleet defending it.

And to encourage attackers, let's make ALL bases captured if the defending fleet is eliminated, contibuting +2 BPs

Any objections, or shall I add all the new rules in?

-Jam

	26-05-2004 02:49									#59
	Tired of ads?

Not that I'm playing, but I think bases should be destroyed, and uncapturable.

	26-05-2004 02:55									#60
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Rule Changes and clarifications:

• 1.) A base now costs 16 BPs to build.
  
  
• 2.) Fleets to be kept secret.
  
  
• 3.) A victorious attack captures one of the opponent's bases. A victorious attack that elimininates all the of the defender's ships captures all his bases. Captured bases provide only 2 BPs per turn. The victorious attacker has the option of destroying the base completly.
  
  
• 4.) A defending fleet that loses (i.e takes more hits than the attacking fleet) without being totally eliminated saves its home base from capture. However, that base provides no BPs in the following turn due to collateral damage.
  
  
• 5.) Attacking any of an opponent's bases when he has Shields Up results in 6 hits of damage to your fleet, distributed as combat damage, GM to randomly decide if unclear, as usual.
  
  
• 6.) Attacking fleets must either be sent to attack one particular base. The defender must say which bases his ships are stationed at when sending orders.
  
  
• 7.) A base provides +3 Lasers, +3 Fighters and +3 Torpedoes to any fleet defending it.
  
  
• 8.) If two (or more) non-allied players attack a third player at the same time, the battle will first be resolved by the player who sent their orders most recently. In this way faster posters may have to face weaker defences. It is possible for the defender to lose more than one battle in a turn this way, and therefore more than one base. Should a later attacker find that the last base was already captured, the fleet returns home, to report that the enemy was already defeated. That's the punishment for faster posters.
  Allied players must decide between themselves who gains the conquered base.
  
  
• 9.) A cap of 6 home bases to be imposed on all players, in addition to any bases captured.
  
  

Last edited by Jamski on 26-05-2004 at 03:45