27-05-2004 12:55									#61
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quote: The original proposal was to just list they types and number of ships they had: eg 3 Fri, 4 Cru, 1 Bat rather than 2 T-Fri, 1 F-Fri, 4 L-Cru, 1 F-Bat Still, you are the only one who can make a judgement on the work involved vs the gameplay payoff.

It means more work for you as well, keeping track of how many ships you have. Don't expect you get a nice little newsletter every round to tell you what your current fleet is.

Decide folks, I'm making the table now...

-Jam

	27-05-2004 13:11									#62
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Ok, fleets will stay secret. I hope no one has to ask me what ships they have...

Or we can imagine this is a board game. You can see the ships on the table???

code:



Player Name

Bases

BPs
Total
Ships



Duke
o'York

4

26

5




Smiley

3
(+4)

27

11



Skanky
Burns

5

29

4



Trokair

4

20

6



General
Ludd

4

21

6



Spaced
Cowboy

5

25

3



Ljcvetko

4

21

6



DrSpike

4
(-1)

27

2



Vlad
Antlerkov

5

26

4

	27-05-2004 13:14									#63
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quote: Not knowing the fleets would add some more strategy though. If you don't know if playerX has 1 or 100 ships it would be more interesting when you attack and would make you plan an attack more than just looking for the player with the least ammount of ships and picking them off.

I think it would add more strategy if you could look at the fleets against you. The you can consider who would be the best targets, who to defend against, and who would be a good ally.

And you would always have a nice overview of your own fleet too

-Jam

	27-05-2004 13:24									#64
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Also a good point. Being the "god" of this galaxy it is your decision. Let us try two test games, this being the first. Since ships are showing in this game, leave it that way. Next game try hidden fleets (ala Mafia discusion)

Also Orders Sent

	27-05-2004 13:58									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski code: Smiley Urban 9 Fig 12 Torp - Urban takes 9 Hits 9 Las 8 Fig - Urban takes 9 Hits 6 Torp 0 Las - Urban takes 6 Hits

That's not right. If a player is missing one type, the top of the battle order should come up again. In this case, it would be 6 Torp vs 12 Torp, thus Smiley would take 6 points of damage.

	27-05-2004 14:08									#66
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If you're missing a type you're in trouble
You've fired your torpedoes, you've launched your fighters... and what's left... the lasers... oh, we don't have any lasers.... aaaagh!

Otherwise everyone would build 1-type navies and take that 1-in-3 chance of being blocked for doing massive damage.

I knew you'd complain about the rules if you died

You were a bit unlucky there though. You were outnumbered, so I expected you to lose a ship or two, but beaten in every round was pretty tough. Smiley played a perfect momentum opening though, building no bases to get more ships early on, which has paid off as he now has your bases. Heh, even if you had beaten him off or survived at least, Ludd's fleet had already arrived and was waiting on the result to come and attack you...

-Jam

	27-05-2004 14:16									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski you get a nice little newsletter every round to tell you what your current fleet is.

When can I expect my report by PM?

	27-05-2004 14:27									#68
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Does it matter? You don't get points from the bases untill the next turn anyways.

If bases are built before ships, I can construct a base and in the same turn build better class starships. For instance, I have 4 bases and 21 points. If I build a new base next round, can I also build a titan ship?

	27-05-2004 14:28									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski If you're missing a type you're in trouble You've fired your torpedoes, you've launched your fighters... and what's left... the lasers... oh, we don't have any lasers.... aaaagh! Otherwise everyone would build 1-type navies and take that 1-in-3 chance of being blocked for doing massive damage.

Not really. If I got 90 ships with torps and the other side got 30 ships each, I am not going to send all 90 of my ships in the first wave. That only makes sense. Likewise, if the enemy sends in 4 frigates, there's no need for me to send in 5 titans.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski You were a bit unlucky there though. You were outnumbered, so I expected you to lose a ship or two, but beaten in every round was pretty tough.

The problem is a rotation in the order of battle produces exactly the same results, so a complete destruction of fleets seems to be quite a frequent occurance.

	27-05-2004 14:37									#70
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Jamski, why is Doctor's Base 3 damaged?

	27-05-2004 14:53									#71
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Hehe fun game, but Duke.

I was also wondering about the disabled city. We don't want attacking to be too powerful. Still let's try it and see how it goes. The first game is always a test.

	27-05-2004 16:37									#72
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I say make the ships available to see. 'cause I don't want to remember what my fleet is.



And Smiley: I wanted those bases!

	27-05-2004 17:27									#73
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quote: When can I expect my report by PM?

Sent

quote: If bases are built before ships, I can construct a base and in the same turn build better class starships. For instance, I have 4 bases and 21 points. If I build a new base next round, can I also build a titan ship?

No. Bases are built at the same time as ships, so you need to start the turn with 5 bases to build Titans.

quote: The problem is a rotation in the order of battle produces exactly the same results, so a complete destruction of fleets seems to be quite a frequent occurance.

I'm not sure what you mean, but yes, fleet destruction is not so unlikely. A different OoB would have helped you...

code:
Smiley   Urban
9 Fig    8 Fig   - Urban takes 1 Hit
9 Las   12 Torp  - Smiley takes 12 Hits
6 Torp   0 Las   - Urban takes 6 Hits

For example.

quote: Jamski, why is Doctor's Base 3 damaged?

Didn't we agree that the base would be damaged in the case of a draw, but ready to go next turn, as a measure to encourage attackers? That's why.

quote: I say make the ships available to see. 'cause I don't want to remember what my fleet is.

I said so too. Anyone else have an opinion? I already had to PM Duke his fleet list

-Jam

	27-05-2004 17:46									#74
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But I'm a "special" case.

quote: Originally posted by Jamski No. Bases are built at the same time as ships, so you need to start the turn with 5 bases to build Titans.

Erm, can we start the game again please?
Despite my inability to remember my own fleet, I definitely remember building an extra base last turn (Smew), and then using these four to build a dreadnought, which Spikey got in the knackers. Now I've got a feeling that Dear ole Doc might well protest at this unusual turn of events. Maybe not, maybe he'll be most forgiving and not mind in the least.

	27-05-2004 17:50									#75
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Speaking of things gone wrong.... I think my fleet should of continued it's planned attack and tried to take the base from smiley, after he conquered it.

	27-05-2004 17:54									#76
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Well if you hadn't agreed an alliance with , then your two fleets should fight afterwards, yes. And if his ships were damaged in the first fight then unlucky for him.

	27-05-2004 17:59									#77
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round 2 orders are in!

	27-05-2004 18:08									#78
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I favour playing on, since restarting now will inevitably just lead to other things coming up.

As for turn order Duke's attack is fine, since he built the base on turn 1, then ships + attack on me turn 2. I defended with ships built in turn 2, so it's fine. I also think it should be the case that bases/ships are built together, so that you must already have 5 bases to build the bigass ship.

As to GL's point I too think he should probably attack Smiley after Smiley took UR's bases. However it raises some questions, since a player could mop up after a fight and get all the spoils.

I am also wary of rules that depend on who sent their order first. These are never fair.

Perhaps the solution to both the final two problems is to randomise the order of attacks when 3 players are involved.

	27-05-2004 18:13									#79
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No Spikey, I build the extra base (the one that allowed me to build a dreadnought on turn 2) in turn 2 as well as the other ships.

	27-05-2004 18:14									#80
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Crap, Duke is right. Ok, you can't build a 5th base and titans in the same turn, or a 4th base and dreadnoughts, but its done now. I shall keep a close eye on this in the future. If Doc thinks this is unfair, we can remove the damage on Base3.

quote: Speaking of things gone wrong.... I think my fleet should of continued it's planned attack and tried to take the base from smiley, after he conquered it.

You sent orders to attack Urban *shrugs* And your captains were happy to let Smiley's ships do the fighting and sit back and watch, before falling falling on the survivors. Sadly there were no survivors, and your captains didn't have the urge to start a war without written orders...

Oh, and don't complain, you would probably have been pasted by Smiley

-Jam

	27-05-2004 18:16									#81
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But I want him to be pasted by Smiley.

	27-05-2004 18:21									#82
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quote: As to GL's point I too think he should probably attack Smiley after Smiley took UR's bases. However it raises some questions, since a player could mop up after a fight and get all the spoils. I am also wary of rules that depend on who sent their order first. These are never fair. Perhaps the solution to both the final two problems is to randomise the order of attacks when 3 players are involved.

Like I said, Ludd ordered his ships to attack Urban, not to attack a specific base regardless of who occupied it. As for the "post first - fight last" rule, its a simple solution to the problem. Sometimes going first is better - as in this case, but sometimes going second is better, as would be the case had Urban won the fight taking heavy damage, for instance. There's no way to tell in advance whic will be the best result, meaning "post first - fight last" is just as "random" as rolling a dice.

-Jam

	27-05-2004 18:25									#83
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quote: Originally posted by duke o' york No Spikey, I build the extra base (the one that allowed me to build a dreadnought on turn 2) in turn 2 as well as the other ships.

In that case I call shenanigans and demand both my Dreadnought and use of Base3's points this turn.

You wouldn't have killed my dreadnought if the rules were followed.

	27-05-2004 18:28									#84
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Well... Duke may have sent a Battleship and Frigate instead...

If its really an issue I can "rewind" the fight, restore all lost ships and give Duke the 4 BPs back for "the Dreadnought that never was"

Doc? Duke?

-Jam

	27-05-2004 18:47									#85
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Well if I couldn't have built a Dreadnought at that time then I wouldn't have taken the chance of making the game interesting and going after Doc. I would have simply built two bases instead of one, and a shield generator.
I'm not too bothered about winning or losing this game though, so I'll play on however you want to. I'll need to submit new orders for the next round though.

	27-05-2004 19:14									#86
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Duke - doesn't care
Doc - ?

Ah, time for a GM ruling. The power, eh? I rule that we just play on. Its only a game. Doc gets full use of Base3, and Duke keeps his Dread.

And since Doc failed to train a spy/attack or build a shield generator in round 1, he can have one of them now (even though its really too late) - as long as he agrees not to complain.

Everyone happy? Good

I await the trauma of round 2...

-Jam

	27-05-2004 19:25									#87
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Ok, so I did a DP as well.

Last edited by Skanky Burns on 27-05-2004 at 19:38

	27-05-2004 19:37									#88
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My orders are now in for round 2.
Hooray!

At least, I may have sent the orders in. I wouldn't be surprised if the number of times I have sent it fell between 0 to 6 inclusive. Let me know if they got through, Jam.

I wonder what is up with Poly.

	27-05-2004 19:44									#89
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Now I don't understand your ruling on the issue between the duke and the doctor. Care to clarify please?

	27-05-2004 19:48									#90
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What don't you understand?

Duke built a Dread he couldn't be abuildin', and got a draw with Doc, damageing Doc's base. I've removed the damage from Doc's base, but let Duke keep the Dread, as it was an honest misunderstanding.

In addition Doc forgot to send his "action orders" (i.e. build spy etc) last turn, so I'll let him do it now to "take the bad taste out of his mouth"

And everyone's happy

I got your orders Skanky

-Jam