27-05-2004 20:05									#92
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FFS! Poly is being... nasty tonight.

	27-05-2004 20:23									#93
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I still don't fully comprehend Jamski.

In fact you did nothing to clarify my dilemmas, you just repeated what you posted before.

Let me ask you again. Duke gets his dreadnaught and doc gets his spy or whatever and his base working, but what with the fight? Did it occur or not? And the losses?

Thanks!

	27-05-2004 20:29									#94
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Hehe I made no mistake so I don't think I should be punished at all. I should get my dead dreadnought (that I legally built!) back, as well as my damaged base repaired. I also confess I don't understand the action orders stuff, or indeed how much spies cost or I might have built one last round!

	27-05-2004 20:34									#95
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Spies cost zero. As does the shield generator.

Yes, the rules are rather complex and still not defined sufficiently.

	27-05-2004 20:49									#96
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Why are these things free?

	27-05-2004 20:49									#97
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Aaagh.

Ok, ok... you'll never stop complaining otherwise... *hits rewind* the fight is cancelled. Doc gets his Dread back, Duke gets his Frigates back, the base is undamaged etc etc.
Duke keeps his Dread, only a small mistake *shrugs* but Doc missed out on the chance to make shields/spies/etc in round 1.

GM's FINAL WORD ON THE SUBJECT. If you don't like it - tough.

Doc, its just like Nuclear War, but with a building phase first. After you're done building you send an order. Train spy, raise shields, build shield generator or attack someone.

code:



Player Name

Bases

BPs
Total
Ships



Duke
o'York

4

26

9




Smiley

3
(+4)

27

11



Skanky
Burns

5

29

4



Trokair

4

20

6



General
Ludd

4

21

6



Spaced
Cowboy

5

25

3



Ljcvetko

4

21

6



DrSpike

4

32

3



Vlad
Antlerkov

5

26

4

Last edited by Jamski on 27-05-2004 at 22:39

	27-05-2004 20:50									#98
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sent.

I like reading about all the battles, so at least post what ships were used in combat.

	27-05-2004 21:06									#99
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Will do

Orders from Trokair, Duke, Spaced, Skanky, Smiley received.

-Jam

	27-05-2004 21:13									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Will do Orders from Trokair, Duke, Spaced, Skanky, Smiley received. -Jam

And ludd.


I sent mine an hour ago.

	27-05-2004 21:17									#101
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Spies seem rather lame though. All they stop is an attack order or building spies/generators. Now if they stopped new shipping being created...

	27-05-2004 21:19									#102
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Spies ARE rather lame. Unless they stop someone attacking YOU. If they could stop ship construction they would be über.

Can you resend please Ludd. 'Poly is being odd.

-Jam

	27-05-2004 21:32									#103
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If spies stop people from attack you, they are essentially shields, but not as good.

How about having spies reveal the composition of an enemy fleet? Or, make them a BP-buildable unit.

	27-05-2004 21:33									#104
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Well... let's leave the discussion on spies untill the 5th round "Council"

-Jam

	27-05-2004 21:35									#105
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They stop someone attacking someone else. The chance that someone attacks you on the turn you send a spy to them is minimal. The chance that that person is the only one attacking you that turn has an even lower chance.

Can I convert my spy into a shield generator?

	27-05-2004 21:37									#106
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...in the 31st century, breakthroughs in bioengineering have led to the Skank Empire's creation of the galaxy's first organic shield generator...

	27-05-2004 21:38									#107
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How many spies/shield generators can I have stockpiled?

If many, can I use several spies in a single turn?

	27-05-2004 21:40									#108
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Yes. That's the advantage of spies. You can stockpile them in peacetime. The other advantage is that they stop an opponent rebuilding his shield or training his own spies...

-Jam

	27-05-2004 21:46									#109
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So, only one shield then? No shield generators stockpile?

	27-05-2004 21:51									#110
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski quote: The problem is a rotation in the order of battle produces exactly the same results, so a complete destruction of fleets seems to be quite a frequent occurance. I'm not sure what you mean, but yes, fleet destruction is not so unlikely. A different OoB would have helped you...

What I meant was this. Consider laser-fighter-torpedo. If you rotate that once, you get torpedo-laser-fighter. The second sequence completely destroys the first one. It's likely that these sorts of sequences occur a lot, thus causing destruction of entire fleets, which should not occur that often, when both fleets are roughly the same size.

As for my other point (you seem to be avoiding it Jamski ), consider a very simple example. Pit two lineups of 3 ships fo the same size, say, battleships, at each other. One side has one of each, while the other side has 3 of the same. If you use my suggestion to resolve the combat, no matter how the OoBs are, you always end up with 1 win, 1 draw, and 1 lose for both sides, which makes perfect sense. If we use the original interpretation, the side with 3 of the same will automatically lose 2 ships, 3 if he's unlucky, which is very silly.

	27-05-2004 21:52									#111
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Can I convert my spy into a shield generator?

	27-05-2004 21:59									#112
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Its a game UR. It uses abstractions.

quote: Pit two lineups of 3 ships fo the same size, say, battleships, at each other. One side has one of each, while the other side has 3 of the same. If you use my suggestion to resolve the combat, no matter how the OoBs are, you always end up with 1 win, 1 draw, and 1 lose for both sides, which makes perfect sense. If we use the original interpretation, the side with 3 of the same will automatically lose 2 ships, 3 if he's unlucky, which is very silly.

Nice point... it illustrates the tactical blunder you made. A fleet all of one type is very vunerable.

* Jamski hits Skanky with a fish *

-Jam

	27-05-2004 22:02									#113
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Right now, as it stands, the combat system in Galactic Overlord is sheer luck and is likely going to have to undergo a process of deep revision.

	27-05-2004 22:05									#114
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Agreed. Unfortunately, I can't think of any real solutions right now.

Orders sent.

	27-05-2004 22:06									#115
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Its like Gladiator - a combination of luck, second guessing and psycology, within a strategic framework. The way to win combats is to build your fleet to weigh luck your way a bit...

However, I think next round I will make the fleet lists public. That makes it more strategic - plan your attack by looking at what you're likely to face.

-Jam

	27-05-2004 22:07									#116
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Hehe sent.

Btw I wonder if just giving everything (ie the shields and spies as well) a build cost would make the game more elegant. It would also make it even more distinct from NW.

	27-05-2004 22:12									#117
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quote: Btw I wonder if just giving everything (ie the shields and spies as well) a build cost would make the game more elegant. It would also make it even more distinct from NW.

That could work, Doc... but there will be no rules changes in the middle of a round 6 players from 9 have aready sent their orders for. (Athough I still don't have Ludd's)

Proposed costs :
Shield Generator - 1 x number bases currently owned.
Spy - 3

-Jam

	27-05-2004 22:16									#118
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And fleet maintenance will also have to be introduced. Though I'd reserve these profound changes for the next game.

And please Jam, don't ignore my questions. Can I stockpile shield generators?

And another question. What if my defensive fleet was obliterated, but I sent some ships attacking and they were victorious. Do I still lose all of my bases or just one?

	27-05-2004 22:24									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Jamski Proposed costs : Shield Generator - 1 x number bases currently owned.

It would have to have additional restrictions. Otherwise you would be invulnerable and have 4 x base worth of production each turn.

I have to hand it to you though, this game is really good. Ironing out the rules will of course be problematic but overall I have to give this a significant

	27-05-2004 22:27									#120
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Perhaps you have hit upon a solution.

Total build points of attacker's fleet versus TBP of defenders fleet split into three categories.

ADP

Or....

We could incorporate a ship design system that has unchangeable ADPH attack-defense-power-hits picks that are made when the ship is built out of a pool for that ship class. For instance you could make a 1-1-1-1 frigate cuz the frigate gives you 4 point to distribute, or a 1-0-2-1, then say 9 points for the crusier, 15 for the battleship, 22 for the dreadnought and 30 for the titan. They would still cost the same amount of BPs and we could take HP out of the equation and make then static.

or....

We could build our ships with long range and short range options. Here there is no power rating and the same number is used for both offensive and defensive options. Hence we could have 1-4 LR-SR titans (with 5 hp). Long range combat is executed first, damage taken, then short range combat. The key is that .... hmmm this idea does not seem to be working at the moment without getting more complicated. I was trying to figure out a way to make SR combat more effective like doubling the attack factors....but that seems too much of an advantage. Maybe a 50% bonus...but then the GM has to do a lot of maths.


Okay my head hurts now...see what you did!