08-06-2004 05:19									#31
	Put an end to popups!

Year and Number of Jews:
 

1882

7,800,000


1900

10,600,000


1914

13,500,000


1922

14,400,000


1925

14,800,000


1939

16,728,000


1948

11,500,000


1955

11,800,000


1970

12,630,000


1980

12,840,000


1990

12,870,000


2000

13,191,500

	08-06-2004 07:51									#32
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quote: I'm pretty sure they believed in an idol. It's only semi-monotheism. And, people still are Zoroastrian?

ZOROASTRIANSIM CERTAINLY DOES NOT WORSHIP IDOLS!

They were a reaction against idols- they were monotheistic/dualistic with a belief in Ahura Mazda and a good deity. The good deity was assaulted by Mazda at all times.

In essence it was a God/Satan sort of thing except satan could challenge god (which is honestly only an invention of evangelical christians and has no part in catholic/christian theology... traditionally christians make their own choices and satan cant force anything... [and yes I do know about the **** 40 days in the desert])

	08-06-2004 08:32									#33
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No need to yell

	08-06-2004 12:45									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Jawn Henry IDEA: You could choose your official religion same as you would your gov't. I don't think religion should impact too heavily on the game, but still flavor it: it should only affect foreign relations, and happiness of the people. I don't think we should have to fool with percentages of a city that belong to X or Y religion - it should be that a city either is or isn't of a certain religion (keep things simple while still adding depth). Those cities of a different religion than the official one would be less happy. One could, however, convert those cities, or possibly, they might be converted over time - sorta like culture conversions. If you change your religion, then there needs to be some sort of formula to determine how many and which cities will convert right away. I imagine proximity to the capital (or religious center, if different than the capital) could play a part in that. JH

I think it would be no problem to determine the religion for every pop.-head in a city. Otherwise a huge city of millions of inhabitants might immediately completely convert to another faith.
But I agree that the effects of religion should be limited to a certain degree and not determine the way the game goes too much.

	08-06-2004 23:21									#35
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heavily disagree on changing religon


countless pepole change their religon in the USA to no effect at all, except to the churchs pocket book.

That's why I like the cultural domination aspect, If pepole love your way of running things, they will convert,

Thanks for listening

	09-06-2004 13:55									#36
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Platypus: that'd be correct in today's world perhaps, but religion had a great impact in earlier times and was an important force.

	09-06-2004 14:08									#37
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It is interesting to note that in a religion as governments model (something like CTP), all the religious governments are renaissance or earlier, except for fundamentalism, which takes (or should do anyway) a serious science hit. This reasonably reflects the way religion was important then, but is not so important now.

	09-06-2004 14:18									#38
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I don't want a system of govts to simulate religions. I like some of the old ideas that DarkCloud posted:

quote: 2. Religion Concepts 2.1) Origins Once civs have had time to establish a foothold, prophets would begin to appear. Religions would begin to spread immediately thereafter. This has evolved from ideas such as the previous suggestion that wars or “three nasty events in a row” cause religions to appear. In this model, new religions would appear realistically, throughout the centuries. Some might never grow more than a city or two, while others would become recognized world religions. Some that were eradicated would never be heard of again; others might enjoy a revival two thousand years later. 2.1.1) Prophets 2.1.1.1) All civs would begin non-aligned and would experience the emergence of at least one prophet beginning with the second millenium of the game, but not before the discovery of religion. 2.1.1.2) A prophet is not a unit, but rather a newly born citizen in a given city's population window, identified by his/her new religious symbol, with higher conversion values (20 evangelism, 25 conviction) than regular citizens (see conversion, below, for explanation of conversion values).

...and so on. Lots of good ideas there. I like the idea of religions emerge and disappear without the player's full control. One could have a state religon, but if the populace go over to another religon, the govt would be forced to follow if it wants the populace's support. IE Roman Empire when Christianity got strong. Ideas 2 and 3(in the old List) is what I like especially good.

	25-06-2004 19:08									#39
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who did this

	26-06-2004 01:01									#40
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And there would no way what so ever to change said prophet to
a tax collector,entertainer etc....


as long as religon does not get in the way of war fare


Here is another thouht..

Lets say a city is size 5, only so many military may be produced out of it

the other factors would come into play

If you are at war +
type governmant +/-

this could change things

	26-06-2004 06:14									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Naokaukodem who did this

Who did what?

	26-06-2004 12:10									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master Who did what?

Don't feed the spammer.
Also, Platypus: What does this have to do with religion?

	27-06-2004 00:54									#43
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Like I said

...Here is another thouht..

Just bouncing off this list for feed back


and now back to our regular topic

	27-06-2004 07:25									#44
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IMHO there should be a setup option of either:

I) Standard religion (like current e.g. Temple -> Cathedral etc) OR
II) enhanced religion (e.g. Protestant nations etc)

That way, everyone could be happy ???

	27-06-2004 07:34									#45
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So you could choose to have religion on or off? I doubt that would ever happen.

	27-06-2004 07:40									#46
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I agree with nuclear master- if it's going to be in the game- it'll be an integral part- like Europa Univeralis.

	27-06-2004 08:41									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master So you could choose to have religion on or off? I doubt that would ever happen.

Why Not?? They allow you to choose the barbarian level?, why not this one as well?

	27-06-2004 10:03									#48
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Maybe in the editor. But not as a regular feature.

	27-06-2004 12:30									#49
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I think it could be in the main options with the others, but in the editor would be as good as any other

	27-06-2004 14:36									#50
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Would you want a l ist (top ten religons?)
Fewer choices in the begining and more later on?
as well as on or off

Much like governments, depending what you research is what religons are availble?

	27-06-2004 21:42									#51
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Beside anything else, I'd like to state that I don't like the temple-->cathedral succession. Not only that I always find it odd when playing Aztecs or Arabs, to build "cathedrals", it's also weird that you HAVE to have a temple to build a cathedral, when I think that in many cases when churches (or mosques) were built, temples were destroyed...

	27-06-2004 21:47									#52
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Depending on what religion you are, you could either build a temple or a cathedral. Each would have it's own advantage, and it would differentiate the religions a bit.

	27-06-2004 23:55									#53
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i.e.

budha
mosque
synagoge

what about atheisim?

	28-06-2004 00:05									#54
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What about it?

	28-06-2004 00:42									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Platypus Rex budha

I guess you mean Stupa?

quote: what about atheisim?

Temple of Reason

	28-06-2004 01:35									#56
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In that case, how about the option of

I) Standard Religion OR
II) Enhanced Religion OR
III) No or Basic Religion?

By the last option I mean have only a temple which changes into a meeting type place were atheists could get together & talk??

	28-06-2004 01:36									#57
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What would the first one would be then?

	28-06-2004 01:39									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master What would the first one would be then?

The current progression of religion in the cIV series

	28-06-2004 01:46									#59
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How is that different from the last option then?

	28-06-2004 01:53									#60
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Only difference really would be if you personally didn’t believe, & didn’t want to feel like you had to, in order to play the game IMHO