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Naokaukodem
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IMO religion should appear sooner in the game under various forms like occultism. they are the way to think the universe, and the cradle of all civilizations if you ask me.
Also it could have a greater importance in the game. Different religions could give the player different type of cities, and also vary parameters like culture, happiness, production, foreign relations as a cultural power also or subsequence of military power. In fact they could separate the world in as many parts as religions, independantly of civilizations and/or countries, and be a domain of battle in itself. They may be linked with politics and religions politics anyway so that they would be unique for each country/civilization and alliances, but I think that they should be more representative thna in civ3 (and others) indeed, a greater mark of dispute, a greater cause of war and gameplay, in a more religious-related interface and events.
Last but not least, religion should have to be linked with psychology in some way at a time (modern ages), and could really be a great weapon in itself, if not the main, just like the 11 september or the irak invasion. Each religions would have its particular war possibilities, i.e. Christianism improved cultural convertion, Protestantism (?) better media or corruption and rebellion (?) and some other random a better sense of quick harrasment.
to sum up: religion to be a harder center of the game and gameplay and a harder extension of the game and gameplay also.
Last edited by Naokaukodem on 28-06-2004 at 04:04
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sabrewolf
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turicum, helvetistan
Jun 2002
time: 06:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Beside anything else, I'd like to state that I don't like the temple-->cathedral succession. Not only that I always find it odd when playing Aztecs or Arabs, to build "cathedrals", it's also weird that you HAVE to have a temple to build a cathedral, when I think that in many cases when churches (or mosques) were built, temples were destroyed... |
temples could be thought as flexible "basic religious houses", like chapels/churches, mosques, shrines, etc., while cathedrals stand for the bigger religious buildings...
it makes sence as usually cathedrals are in centres and less common than a regular church which you can find in nearly every city.
considering religion: the perfect tech in the future era: "the unified belief" (can also be no belief) which gets rid of all religious based acts of agression 
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Drachasor
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Well, frankly the "type" of religion (monotheistic, polytheistic, etc) doesn't actually matter that much.
Religions should be covered under a slightly more encompassing category: Belief Systems
Really, what's the difference on a civilization level between a polytheistic religion, a monotheistic religion, and atheistic belief system that all advocate peace? There really is no difference, until they interact with each other.
Now, Governments can do a few things about religions/belief systems. There can be a State Belief System, which the State advocates and teaches in the schools. There can be a Pluralism, wherein whatever people want to believe is ok, so long as they obey the law. There can also be a mix, which the Romans basically had; this is where you can believe whatever you want, as long as you pay respect and don't deny the main religion.
Otherwise the distinguishing differences between belief systems are wether they advocate different behaviors and wether they advocate different non-behavior beliefs. Differences in the former would probably cause more problems than the latter, though having a commonalities in either base would allow religions to interact decently. For all intents and purposes if both attributes are the same then there is basically no difference between the two religions on a civilization level, I think. One difference would cause some problems, and two would cause a ton of problems (an atheistic pacifist belief system would have a lot of trouble with a warmongering polytheism).
I think that as you advance, difference discoveries should open up different types of both attributes. War-like and Pacifist should definitely be starting types though (or perhaps Republic should open up Pacifist). Atheism should probably come with Philosophy, and generally advances like "Polytheism" and "Monotheism" should be eliminated as much as possible. Instead have other advances open up that religious modifier.
Most of the big religions we have now should be things you can get way before gunpowder. New religious tags might be taken from cults, such as Extra-Terristial Worship. Perhaps the tags should relate to each other in a somewhat complex way, but I shy from this. I can see how a Polytheism would get along better with a Monotheism than vice versa (Polytheistic Religions have traditionally been open to new gods--which is just insulting to the Monotheism).
Anyhow, I can see modifiers to converting new cities to your Empire, and even happiness of citizens in your cities depending on how you are actings vs. what they believe. If you largely have pacifists, then that war *you* started isn't going to go well. On the other hand, most people are willing to defend themselves, but they might give you a hard time if you reject the first peace treaty offered to you (assuming you have taken back all of your cities).
I am also shying away from these very complex systems some are proposing. The basic system should be pretty simple, but have some deeper strategies and interrelations with other things in the game. (As long as the cause-effects are easy to see).
-Drachasor
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Enigma_Nova
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I presume Religion will have in-game effects, and won't just be a cosmetic thing?
I wonder how they'll solve the PR issue of giving any negatives to Chrisitanity. Heh.
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TheLoneAmigo
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I really like the idea of Religons as independent groups, operating independently from Civs.
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TheLoneAmigo
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I really like the idea of Religons as independent groups, operating independently from Civs.
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Drachasor
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quote:
Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
I presume Religion will have in-game effects, and won't just be a cosmetic thing?
I wonder how they'll solve the PR issue of giving any negatives to Chrisitanity. Heh. |
Frankly, I think the best way to deal with this is to ignore the issue. Don't give real-world names to the religions. How the heck are you supposed to model the appearence of christianity without riling people up, one way or another? This is true of almost every religion.
Of course, I suppose there is a way around this. There have been war-like periods and christian history, and peaceful periods. That's one good reason to go with labeling the religions with some qualifier as to what they are advocting/preaching. Then you can label them with what catagory they are in along the polytheism, monotheism, atheistic, etc front.
Beyond this, I am wary of what to advocate. It is easy to add far too much complexity to the game. How does one decide how religions will split, if they split? How does one decide when a religion will advocate going to war, when will it advocate peace, and when this will get annoying like the Senate in CivII?
Clearly the easiest way to handle it would be as a social engineering choice, but then you lose on the spreading of a religion that is different from your national identity.
Hmm, I will think on this more before I post any elaborate ideas.
-Drachasor
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28-06-2004 03:08
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