04-06-2004 23:14									#1
	Bongo is in chat Increase Your PM Length

Bongo is in the #isdgfamtalks room, right now.

He's basically looking for GoW people, but we are chatting a little.

E_T

	05-06-2004 00:06									#2
	Increase Your PM Length

I suppose my presence is not needed, we have very little official contact with GWT.

Aidun

	05-06-2004 01:03									#3
	Inflate your Upload Space

Now Lucky has joined in (seriously).

Things are getting wild.

	05-06-2004 01:29									#4
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Go taunt them in chat!

But seriously, go hang out. Idle a bit. And ask them questions about how things are going as if you don't know that much and give the impression that our team is so very unactive and mostly uninformed that no one really knows what's going on except the guys who play the save ... and with Trip quitting and activity at an "all time low" you're surprised that the game is still going on.

Give the impression (but do not directly state) that things are boring as hell because all we're doing is letting E_T build and clear jungle and build some more.

--Togas

	05-06-2004 01:33									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Togas, this chat is basically small talk between Bongo and Trip, with me ET and Lucky watching.

	05-06-2004 01:52									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

A relatively important line I think I should bring up here:

quote: [Bongo] Any hope of resuming normal diplomatic and trading relations btw?

	05-06-2004 01:54									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I've been AFK for some time, but we really should have a few others in here, IMHO.

E_T

	05-06-2004 02:03									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We are giving them too much INFO, IMHO.

quote: [15:38] * Trip can smell the coal [15:38] [Bongo> Something that doesn't involve the defenders acting stoopid all the time [15:38] [Bongo> What do you need coal for btw? Think you got the worlds supply of it? [15:39] [Trip> probably not [15:39] [Trip> but with coal comes rails [15:40] [Bongo> Don't hope lack of resources will decide this game [15:40] [Trip> meh [15:40] [Bongo> Rails are a killer when defending [15:40] [Trip> with 2 teams and 2 continents I don't think lack of resources will be an issue for anyone [15:40] [Trip> yes [15:40] [Trip> rails will mean the nail in the coffin [15:41] [Trip> come now, bring your Ansar against your Rifles [15:41] [Trip> or your Cav against our Infantry [15:41] [Bongo> Sooo, any intercontinental invasions will happen before steam or after flight... [15:41] [Bongo> Yeah, that commercial trait will really start to shine soon [15:42] [Trip> COM is nice [15:42] [Trip> tricky trait, the effects aren't noticable unless you look

Trip needs to shut up

E_T

	05-06-2004 02:09									#9
	Support Apolyton

Oh come now, don't tempt me to tell him our plan.

	05-06-2004 07:15									#10
	Log Part 1 of 4 Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Session Start: Fri Jun 04 12:29:45 2004 Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks [12:29] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks [12:29] * services.apolyton.net changes topic to '4Greetings! 2 Please type"1/notice (nick) Hello"2 for us when you enter this channel so that we know you are here. We will respond as soon as we can. Thanks. ' [12:29] * ChanServ sets mode: +ntr-o E_T [14:06] * Bongo has joined #isdgfamtalks [14:06] -Bongo- Hello [14:07] [E_T> Hello [14:08] [Bongo> There you are [14:09] [E_T> How can I help you? [14:09] [Bongo> You wouldn't happen to know any GoWers that are online now do you? [14:10] [E_T> Hmmm, I don;t see any [14:11] [Bongo> Hmm, oh well. How's life in polys isdg team then [14:11] [E_T> doing o.k. and you?? looks like your war is winding down.... [14:12] [Bongo> Yeah, not much left of neta now, 'rememberance' can be a bit difficult though [14:13] [E_T> :shrug: [14:14] [Bongo> I guess we have to start nagging Moongoose about enforced peace soon [14:15] [Bongo> One technical question, if you are allowed to answer it [14:15] [Bongo> Those 12 workers neta gave you... [14:15] [E_T> well, as far as I know, it has the be 5 turns afterwards, but then, that was what was agreed between us and GCA, IIRC [14:15] * E_T can't remember all of the specifics and all [14:16] [E_T> Well, I think our Ambassidor had answered that, I think, about the workers [14:16] [Bongo> How did you do it? Normally workers can't be gifted across sea pre-navigaion [14:17] [Bongo> I haven't heard anything [14:17] [E_T> but it's one of the things that is allowed, in the diplo screen, to trade [14:17] [E_T> you do have to have a city on the same continent [14:17] [E_T> for it to work [14:17] [Bongo> yeah, I figured that one out [14:17] [Bongo> very close to a exploit then [14:18] [E_T> can't trade anything else, like luxes or resources [14:18] [E_T> close, but not quite, because it is something that is allowed to be traded [14:19] [Bongo> except you are trading it without the required tech. Doesn't matter really, we're not going to make a fuss about it [14:19] [Bongo> Mostly for my own curiosity [14:19] [E_T> thanks..... [14:20] [E_T> we bought them from them, they needed cash, we needed workers, we worked it out... [14:21] [Bongo> What's the deal about remembende then, pay us back on the WW thingy, a 40-turn research slave, or a very long term plan of putting them back in power [14:21] [E_T> now, that would be telling...... hehe [14:21] [Bongo> Yeah, we never thought they gave it to you for free [14:21] [E_T> seriously, what is their traits?? [14:22] [Bongo> ind+sci [14:22] [E_T> and.... [14:22] [E_T> what happens at the next age? [14:22] [Bongo> but they got an army led by corporals [14:23] [Bongo> the free tech was also mentioned in our forum... [14:23] [Bongo> any comment on their fighting abilities btw? [14:23] [E_T> so, they are inept militarily, we have all seen that.... [14:24] [Bongo> yeah, I spoke with OPD, said he enjoyed humiliating them in PBEMs [14:24] [E_T> but then, from the reports that we have gotten from them, your Super SoD is also a factor.... can;t do much there, either [14:25] [Bongo> Hehe, gotta be prepared [14:25] [E_T> sometimes, plus you just have to know what you are doing [14:26] [Bongo> point [14:26] [E_T> from what they were telling us, they were voting on military manuvers, each turn [14:26] [E_T> can you really beleave that?? [14:27] [E_T> that is taking Democracy, just a little too far, IMHO [14:27] [Bongo> we're doing the same actually, works very well if you got enough skilled players and the n00bs don't interfere too much [14:28] [Bongo> We always believed that miccofl decided too much [14:29] [E_T> hehe, they are just too much, IMHO [14:29] [E_T> and I my Opinion, if it wasn;t for their sci trait, I would have told them to have a nice afterlife [14:29] [E_T> but that's just me... [14:29] [Bongo> yeah, the domocracy stuff can go too far, we seem to have found a good balance [14:29] [E_T> same here [14:30] [Bongo> They buy a city for a tech in the next age then [14:30] [E_T> So, when is the New Harry Potter movie going to be released in Europe? [14:31] [Bongo> have to look it up, where are you anyway? [14:31] [E_T> I went to see it last night, at 12:01, at an IMAX theater [14:31] [E_T> I live in Central Florida [14:31] [Bongo> IMAX...isn't that the real oversized screen etc? [14:32] [E_T> Actually, only about 100 miles from where Miccofl lives [14:32] [E_T> yep, big as life.... and great sound, too [14:32] [Bongo> 11th of june here [14:33] [Bongo> Oh, always wondered why their capitol is named Århus, any clues? [14:33] [E_T> Oh, well, I can tell you it's good [14:33] [E_T> no Idea, likely named by a vote... [14:33] [Bongo> Cool, the book was a bit weird though. Lots of things going on but no big plot... [14:34] [E_T> well, in a why, it sets things up for the next 2 (or more) books [14:34] [Bongo> Århus is a danish city, it's not even their capital ? [14:34] [E_T> why = way [14:34] [Bongo> It sure does, book 4 is my fave so far [14:35] [E_T> have you read #5? [14:35] [E_T> Order of the Pheonix? [14:36] [Bongo> Yeah, she could've edited away 25% of it [14:36] [Bongo> not that it was bad, it just wasn't as good as #4 [14:37] [E_T> from what she had said in a recent interview, see needed to set some things up for 6 & 7, so that the reader wouldn't be left hanging as to where something had come from [14:37] [Bongo> Hm, makes sense, sort of. We'll see [14:38] [E_T> thing is, I hope that they come out before the next movie (at least 1 of them) [14:38] * Trip has joined #isdgfamtalks [14:38] [E_T> Hmmm, you know, I wouldn;t put it past them to release the last book and the last movie at the same time [14:39] [Bongo> they would have to hurry up the moviemaking then [14:39] [E_T> It's Trip, are you settled in, in Baltimore?? [14:40] [Trip> not yet, transitioning [14:40] [Bongo> where do you live now? [14:40] [Trip> Colorado [14:40] [E_T> well, the acters are growing a little too fast, and this last movie was delayed, because of Richard Harris' death, had to find a new Dumbldor [14:41] [Bongo> Yeah, it would have been so much easier to make a film with adults only, they don't age that fast [14:42] [Trip> so when do we nuke GWT E_T? [14:42] [Trip> errr, wait, wrong window [14:43] [E_T> o_O [14:43] [Bongo> I knew you were ahead of us in science, but two ages [14:43] [Trip> shhhh, don't tell anyone [14:43] [Bongo> [14:44] [E_T> Bah, he's just the Great Big Harry Eyeball, what does he know.... [14:44] [Trip> everything :P [14:44] [Trip> it's in the job description ya know [14:44] [Bongo> Say, you DO got acces to GWTs furom don't you? [14:44] [Trip> nahh [14:44] [Trip> I used to [14:45] [Trip> I think it got eliminated when the forums switched over [14:45] [Bongo> makes sense, I remember getting some qustions about where I was supposed ot have access [14:46] [Trip> hehe [14:46] [Trip> soooo [14:46] [Trip> got any offers for Steam Power? [14:46] [Bongo> A cookie? [14:46] [Bongo> Or coal [14:47] [Trip> I think we got enough coal for the rest of the world by ourselves :P [14:47] * Disconnected Session Close: Fri Jun 04 14:47:37 2004 Session Start: Fri Jun 04 14:47:38 2004 Session Ident: #isdgfamtalks [14:47] * Now talking in #isdgfamtalks [14:47] * Topic is '4Greetings! 2 Please type"1/notice (nick) Hello"2 for us when you enter this channel so that we know you are here. We will respond as soon as we can. Thanks. ' [14:47] * Set by BigFree on Mon Jan 05 23:13:07 [14:47] [E_T> Hmmm [14:47] [Bongo> Oh yeah? [14:48] [Bongo> btw, has there ever been trades between our two civs? [14:48] [Trip> yes [14:48] [Trip> Feudalism for Engineering [14:49] [Bongo> Hm, must have been before my time [14:49] [Trip> so you're the one that has soured things [14:50] [Bongo> Yep, I said screw the world and everyone followed me [14:50] [Trip> well I must say, your choice of allies is quite poor [14:51] [Bongo> Why, because they are small? [14:52] [Trip> because they're relatively useless, for another, oh, 15 turns or so [14:52] [Bongo> True, but that will change. [14:53] [Trip> and the fact that they're the pariahs of the world [14:53] [Bongo> hehe [14:53] [Trip> lucky shot with Leo's too [14:53] [Trip> you guys have had good luck in this game [14:53] [Trip> doesn't make up for skill though [14:53] [E_T> enough, that it carries over to the C3C game, that right Trip (who is on CGN on that game) [14:53] [Bongo> Do we, we had to fight hard for iron? [14:54] [Trip> Firaxis was the weakest power in the game [14:54] [Trip> economically, militarily, scientifically [14:55] [Trip> yes E_T, GCA will not make it to round 2 [14:55] [Bongo> Maybe, that was also before my time [14:55] [Trip> ever seen your land compared to ours? [14:55] [Bongo> Are you ganging up on GCA because of this game? [14:56] [Trip> no [14:56] [Trip> they started off with quite an interesting strategy [14:56] [Bongo> Well, you're behind us in development and economy etc now. But given enough time you will pass us [14:56] [Trip> hehe [14:56] [Trip> we started with 9 tiles of grass and 1 bonus food [14:56] [Trip> the 95% of the rest was jungle [14:57] [Bongo> and the amazonas of this world [14:57] [Trip> there was jungle in Apolyton's radius at the start of the game [14:57] [Bongo> Of course, CGNs territoru were the best, still is [14:57] [Trip> yes [14:57] [Trip> I would say yours is well above average though [14:58] [Bongo> Not that bad, but the shape is not good one we get to the industrial age [14:59] [Trip> I'd have taken over what we got [14:59] [Trip> plus a free FP and a free wonder [14:59] [Bongo> I'd say you have come a long way considering the start you got [14:59] [Trip> we've worked hard [14:59] [Trip> and we will win too ;D

	05-06-2004 07:18									#11
	Part 2 of 4 Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: [15:00] [Bongo> Not if I can help it [15:01] [Trip> oh, but you can't [15:01] [Bongo> Good diplomacy and strategy btw [15:01] [Trip> it was all we had working for us at the beginning [15:01] [Trip> GCA helped us out quite a bit [15:01] [Trip> we owe a lot to their lack of good diplomacy [15:01] [Bongo> Any fool-proof plans in store for us? [15:02] [Bongo> Yeah, getting involved in several 2-front wars are noot good [15:02] [Trip> if I told you they wouldn't be fool-proof any more [15:02] [Trip> they provided a perfect distraction for everyone else on the continent while we prepared [15:02] [Bongo> Oh yeah, it only takes a bigger fool [15:03] [Bongo> GCA claim they were 'marked' very early [15:04] [Trip> they attacked CFC and kept an open flank to CDG [15:04] [Trip> CFC naturally has/d reason to dislike them [15:04] [Trip> CDG was originally planning on attacking us, but we were far too strong [15:04] [Trip> so they looked elsewhere [15:04] [Trip> after that, Apolyton did not have the strength to compete with CGN and GWT with the land we had, so we had no choice but to destroy them [15:05] [Bongo> CDG? the eucludians? Wasnt their involvement against GCA a rapid suicide? [15:05] [Trip> yes [15:05] [Trip> they send a stack of Immortals towards GCA's capital [15:05] [Trip> but GCA managed to destroy it and drive them back north and out of existence [15:05] [Trip> send = sent [15:06] [Bongo> Good job winnig the first two-front war btw [15:06] [Bongo> the second was too much obviously [15:06] [Trip> winning what two-front war? [15:06] [Bongo> GCA against CDG/CFC [15:06] [Trip> ah [15:06] [Trip> well [15:06] [Trip> we did not view it as a continental effort against GCA [15:07] [Trip> we viewed it merely as the means to get stronger [15:07] [Trip> just as you did against Firaxis [15:07] [Bongo> I belive it was a question about iron [15:07] [Trip> so why did you not stop after capturing it? [15:07] [Trip> we faced against the entire GCA army when we attacked [15:07] [Trip> many elite units and a Swordsman army no less [15:07] [Trip> GCA was probably stronger than it would have been without its previous training exercises [15:08] [Bongo> Which reminds me, do you think it makes any sense to emply armies in PTW? [15:08] [Bongo> Employ [15:08] [Trip> in some cases [15:08] [Trip> when there aren't good wonders available, Pyramids, Leo's, Hoover, etc. [15:08] [Trip> and when you can get a bunch of defenders in a single army [15:08] [Trip> say, 3 Muskets [15:08] [Trip> invincible barrier [15:08] [Bongo> Neta sent an army against us, but it were cut down pretty fast [15:09] [Trip> yes [15:09] [Trip> we killed the GCA army with 1 MI [15:09] [Bongo> Shite, sword army? [15:09] [Trip> yes [15:09] [Trip> it had 9 or 10 HP [15:09] [Trip> one vet MI got it [15:09] [Bongo> No full then [15:09] [Trip> not quite [15:09] [Trip> few short [15:10] [Bongo> We spent two MIs to take out the neta army inside a hill fortress [15:10] * Krill has joined #isdgfamtalks [15:10] [Trip> I think they had a bit better odds [15:10] [Trip> you guys and all of your silly Archers [15:10] [Trip> such inferior weaponry [15:10] [Bongo> It wasnt fortified [15:10] [Bongo> leftovers from pre-iron wars [15:11] [Trip> you have horses [15:11] [Bongo> We had both, but I really can't comment on that as I don't know anything about it [15:11] [Trip> well [15:12] [Trip> good work against Netatolia [15:12] [Trip> you did catch some breaks though [15:12] [Trip> especially that teleportation [15:12] [Bongo> Oh, one of the archer gave us the first leader [15:12] [Trip> yes [15:12] [Trip> Super Darekill [15:12] [Bongo> What teleportation? GCAs or CGNs? [15:12] [Trip> I would have hidden him away from sight [15:12] [Trip> haha [15:12] [Trip> both [15:13] [Bongo> Why did CGN do that?? Real stoopid [15:13] [Trip> agreed [15:13] [Trip> I don't think you would have had much luck against 2 chokepoint cities with 8 Muskets and 8 Pikes in each [15:13] [Trip> would have had to have made you get more creative [15:14] [Bongo> Yeah, we had some creative plans ready for naval landings [15:14] [Bongo> Didn't need them though [15:15] [Trip> yes [15:15] [Trip> you will not find us so easy to bowl over [15:15] [Trip> in fact, you won't do it at all [15:16] [Bongo> rule #1, bring many units, rule #2, bring more units, rule #3 UNITS!!! [15:16] [Trip> units are nothing unless you know where to place them [15:16] [Trip> a lesson learned quickly and painfully with multi-player experience [15:16] [Bongo> Frankly I'll be disappointed if you defend as incompetent as some other teams.. [15:17] [Trip> do not expect too little, you will be disappointed by default [15:18] [Bongo> Enjoying your new neighbours btw? [15:18] [Trip> they're better than our old ones [15:19] [Bongo> What's teh 'pariah' stuff about GCA btw? WW? [15:19] [Trip> they did everything they could to exploit the game to cause unecessary and dishonorable damage to its enemies [15:21] [Trip> by saving them you automatically made new enemies [15:21] [Bongo> In that case, would you like your new neighbours to behave the same [15:21] [Bongo> We didn't have much choice really [15:21] [Trip> of course not, we will beat you fair and square and quite brutally by the end of this [15:22] [Trip> we met you guys first and got a good trade off early [15:22] [Bongo> Was there more exploits by GCA than the WW thing? (and the jump, but I choose to blame that on moongoose) [15:22] [Trip> things could have been different [15:23] [Bongo> They could [15:23] [Trip> but now comes the great final showdown [15:23] [Trip> hehehehe [15:23] [Trip> and time is on our side [15:24] [Bongo> Hypothetically speaking, if we never saved GCA, then there would've been 3 civs left now. [15:24] [Bongo> A sure defeat for us [15:25] [Trip> but how would they be aligned? [15:25] [Bongo> the 3? not much different from now I guess [15:25] [Trip> why? [15:26] [Bongo> Ever played risk, 3 players, no missions/tasks/whatever? [15:27] [Trip> yup [15:27] [Bongo> If the strongest are to win, he has to be stronger than the tho others combined, or else they will ally against him until he no longer are the strongest [15:27] [Trip> it's a matter of striking when and where at the proper time [15:27] [Bongo> then alliances are abot to change of course [15:27] [Trip> how do you think Napoleon was so successful? [15:28] [Bongo> divide and conquer [15:28] [Bongo> something like that, or concentration of force if yo like [15:28] [Trip> France and Napoleon was victorious against Europe for 20 years [15:28] [Trip> his mistake was his inability to put the nail in the coffin [15:28] [Bongo> We have been using the very same tactic against neta for the last 20 turns [15:29] [Trip> ha [15:29] * Bongo has quit IRC (Quit: ) [15:29] [Trip> guess he was offended :P [15:30] * Bongo has joined #isdgfamtalks [15:30] [Bongo> hit the wrong button [15:30] [Krill> or he timed out [15:30] [Trip> I was wondering how weak your stomache was there [15:31] [Krill> D*mn, wrong again... [15:31] [Trip> as far as your previous comment, you've been using the "we have a 3-move UU and a much bigger army" tactic from what I can tell [15:31] [Bongo> no, I hit disconnect while wanting to close another chat window [15:32] [Bongo> that's true, but thanks to netas inept defending we have been able to overwhelm them piecemal [15:32] [Bongo> they did not how to concentrate their forces, we did [15:33] [Trip> you know [15:33] [Trip> the biggest threat to us in this game would have been your two teams working together [15:33] [Trip> but now, despite you saving GCA you still face an inevitable defeat [15:34] [Bongo> Nah [15:34] [Bongo> Things didn't quite work out between us and neta [15:34] [Trip> yup [15:34] [Trip> fortunately for Apolyton [15:34] [Trip> back before the conflict got messy we were hoping there would be no peace [15:34] [Bongo> problem with the two strongest teams uniting is that they eventually have to fight someday.. [15:35] [Trip> yup [15:35] [Trip> but now you face much greater odds against you [15:35] [Trip> you + Neta take out everyone else relatively easily [15:35] [Trip> then you fight in a 1v1 match where skill brings victory [15:35] [Bongo> Now that we know how louse strategist they are, we probably should've taken the rest of the world first and them later [15:36] [Trip> hehe [15:36] [Trip> too late to go back now [15:37] [Trip> you have to find a way to beat US now ;D [15:37] [Bongo> We are working on something [15:38] [Trip> of course you are [15:38] [Trip> [15:38] * Trip can smell the coal [15:38] [Bongo> Something that doesn't involve the defenders acting stoopid all the time [15:38] [Bongo> What do you need coal for btw? Think you got the worlds supply of it? [15:39] [Trip> probably not [15:39] [Trip> but with coal comes rails [15:40] [Bongo> Don't hope lack of resources will decide this game [15:40] [Trip> meh [15:40] [Bongo> Rails are a killer when defending [15:40] [Trip> with 2 teams and 2 continents I don't think lack of resources will be an issue for anyone [15:40] [Trip> yes [15:40] [Trip> rails will mean the nail in the coffin [15:41] [Trip> come now, bring your Ansar against your Rifles [15:41] [Trip> or your Cav against our Infantry [15:41] [Bongo> Sooo, any intercontinental invasions will happen before steam or after flight... [15:41] [Bongo> Yeah, that commercial trait will really start to shine soon [15:42] [Trip> COM is nice [15:42] [Trip> tricky trait, the effects aren't noticable unless you look [15:43] [Bongo> It's a trait for those who care [15:43] [Trip> a trait for those who wish to become rich [15:43] [Trip> though a free Settler with the land you guys have would be nice [15:43] [Bongo> I believe there is where we got our wonder city [15:43] [Trip> yes [15:44] [Bongo> Luckily, GCA are com as well [15:44] [Trip> Parthemunde [15:44] [Trip> where the river meets the sea [15:45] [Bongo> Right A grand city

	05-06-2004 07:22									#12
	Got spare money?

D*mn, because of all of the smilies, I'm having to break this up into very small portions

quote: [15:46] [Trip> a shame though that you burned off your GA already [15:46] [Bongo> It was well spent [15:46] [Trip> would have helped make things more interesting > [15:47] [Trip> oh, come now, you don't think you could have defeated Netatolia without it? [15:47] [Bongo> with 20/20 hindsight yes, but not without our ansars [15:49] [Trip> one thing that amazed me was back during the Firaxis war we actually caught up with you in MFG [15:49] [Bongo> Not so amazing considereing we were at war and you are industrious [15:50] [Trip> we also had 95% jungle [15:50] [Trip> and no free city [15:50] [Bongo> It's cheaper to combat jungle [15:51] [Trip> we were also building an army [15:51] [Trip> it just took us a lot longer and cost us a lot more [15:51] [Bongo> while we were spending ours [15:51] [Trip> we were still both building units [15:52] [Trip> you can't build the largest army in the world overnight from a banana republic ya know ; [15:52] [Trip> [15:52] [Bongo> Bananas!! Where?!?! [15:52] [Trip> come visit, we'll show you... [15:52] [Bongo> brb, have to make room for another beer [15:55] [Bongo> cold beer, yummy [15:57] [Trip> hehe [15:57] [Trip> don't over-exert yourself on Neta, the true showdown has yet to begin [15:58] [Bongo> you keep telling me [15:58] [Trip> tis a fact [15:59] [Bongo> Oh, you wouldn't be planning to jump the remains of netas army over to your continent btw? [16:00] [Trip> we aren't going to do anything against the rules [16:00] [Bongo> Of course, but do you consider unit-jumping to be outlawed [16:00] [Trip> if you and GCA do [16:01] [Bongo> We've already said in the UN that are not going to do it. [16:01] * Lucky has joined #isdgfamtalks [16:02] [Trip> we're developing quite a crew today [16:02] [Trip> anyone know how to apply Trillian skins by any chance? [16:02] [Trip> just got done rebuilding my computer [16:02] [Lucky> well, since you are talking about us behind our backs once again, I thought I´ll have a looksee [16:03] [Trip> you know, the usual [16:03] [Trip> backstabbing, lying, cheating, stealing, planning evil schemes [16:03] [Lucky> yep [16:04] [Trip> [16:04] [Bongo> Actually, it's CGN that has recieved most of the talking-behind-ones-backs-nasty-comments [16:04] [Trip> he's just trying to hide the secret Apolyton-GWT alliance to conquer the world! [16:05] [Bongo> It works like this: One of us is going to take over the world LOL [16:06] [Trip> so what's new? [16:06] [Trip> too bad it's not close to April [16:06] [Trip> that'd be a good April Fools joke to play on the forum [16:07] [Bongo> Do you think the game will be over by next april? [16:07] [Trip> technically? no [16:07] [Trip> in essence? yes [16:09] [Bongo> Just wondering. PTWDG1 is by far finished yet... [16:09] [Lucky> so, is Poly going to break the unit jumping rule they proposed themselves [16:09] [Trip> PTWDG still has many contenders [16:09] [Trip> ISDG is down to 2 [16:10] [Trip> Lucky: yes, but through a workaround we're going to jump right in the middle of your lands and watch everything burn again [16:10] [Lucky> 2? we´ll show you 2 soon enough [16:10] [Lucky> actually I was refering to real rule breaking by you gifting back those CGN workers that magically made it to your lands [16:11] [Trip> come get them [16:12] [Bongo> We will > [16:12] [Lucky> we´ll just go crying and whining to the admin like other teams do and demand them to be disbanded instead! [16:12] [Trip> bah bah [16:12] [Trip> we got some more for you in the other game [16:12] [Trip> come get those too :P [16:13] [Lucky> oh we will [16:13] [Lucky> [16:13] [Bongo> Seriously, we don't mind that much about CGN selling their worker even if you had to use an exploit to do it. We will strart to complain if you give them back though. [16:14] [Trip> not content in losing already yet Lucky? [16:15] [Lucky> interesting how you cried not to carry over animosities to the other game but are the first ones to do [16:15] [Bongo> do you hapen to know the mood over at CGNs forum btw? [16:15] [Lucky> lol [16:15] [Trip> where have we taken animosities anywhere?

	05-06-2004 07:23									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: [16:16] [Trip> we contacted you but haven't heard anything since [16:16] [Trip> we were insulted [16:16] [Trip> we even went out of our way to throw rotten bananas at your crew [16:17] [Bongo> Keep the rotten bananas to PTWDG2 please [16:17] [Trip> silence, you resource-less... person... man... [16:17] [Trip> :P [16:18] [Bongo> Our defence is that we got nothing worth owning [16:19] [Trip> :P [16:19] [Trip> better than flinging monkey poo I suppose [16:19] [Bongo> Maybe, but I lost that change of posting pics of my hairy belly [16:20] [Trip> I knew the Iraqi government was cruel, but, but this... [16:20] [Trip> [16:21] [Trip> there's got to be something in the Geneva convention against THIS :P [16:21] [Bongo> We're not cruel. We are happy, caring, free-thinking induviduals(which all happens to think the same btw) [16:21] [Trip> that is the definition of perfection [16:22] [Bongo> Well, thank you. We love you all [16:22] [Trip> [16:23] [Trip> I guess this means we can go ahead and skip to the modern age and you guys can vote for us in the UN and put this little spat behind us [16:23] [Bongo> Of course we will. As a matter of fact we will vote for evryone [16:24] [Trip> mwahahaa [16:24] [Trip> well, in that case I guess we can just declare a diplo victory now [16:24] [Trip> well, I'm going home [16:24] [Trip> goodnight [16:24] * Trip has quit IRC (Quit: WE WIN!) [16:24] * Trip has joined #isdgfamtalks [16:24] [Trip> I got lost [16:24] [Bongo> A bit early to say good night isn't it? [16:25] [Bongo> At least in your timezone? [16:25] [Trip> depends on where you are [16:25] [Bongo> You were...colorado? [16:26] [Trip> never! [16:26] [Trip> lies! [16:26] [Trip> [/Iraqi Government\ [16:26] [Trip> err [16:26] [Trip> ] [16:26] [Trip> [16:26] [Lucky> lead you damn webpage :S [16:26] [Lucky> umm LOAD [16:26] [Lucky> whee, it loaded [16:27] * Trip was unaware that ambigious cyber-space entities could possess leadership abilities [16:29] [Bongo> Say, when are you going to trigger your GA? within 20 turns from now? [16:29] [Trip> next turn when we finish Smith's [16:29] [Trip> :P [16:30] [Lucky> oh god, damn slow internet :S :S :S :S >-( [16:30] [Bongo> you already got the great wall, why's that? GA preparations? [16:30] [Trip> barbarian infestation :P [16:30] [Bongo> LOL [16:30] [Trip> you'd never imagine what a Galley with the Wall will do to a pack of barbs [16:32] * Trip grumbles [16:32] [Bongo> I know [16:32] [Trip> why do all the cities named after me have to be built in the middle of the jungle... [16:32] [Bongo> Been playing civ2 lately? [16:32] [Trip> nope [16:32] [Trip> playing MP lately [16:33] [Bongo> got a couple of PBEMs going, nothing more [16:33] [Trip> you'd never imagine how well a good bit of MP can improve one's strategic and tactical abilities [16:34] [Lucky> yep [16:34] [Bongo> Yeah, SP si just to master the game mechanics [16:34] [Trip> the thing that was hardest for me was time management [16:34] [Trip> I'm a micromanager and detail analyzer by nature [16:35] [Trip> having to learn to do things and see things as intuitive is a challenge for us slower-minded folks [16:35] [Bongo> MP got the time-limits on turns? [16:35] [Trip> yes [16:35] [Trip> and you play 1-city elimination [16:36] [Bongo> But it is still TBS? [16:36] [Trip> so if you lose a SINGLE city your game is over [16:36] [Trip> no, simultaneous turns [16:36] [Trip> everyone is playing their turns at the same time [16:36] [Bongo> better keep away then, only won the lowest level at age of empires [16:36] [Trip> hehe [16:36] [Trip> it's not as bad as RTS games though [16:36] [Trip> it's still Civ [16:37] [Trip> everything is just faster [16:37] [Bongo> I guess I could get used to it...but I don't have the time [16:37] [Trip> no time for detailed analyses of the surroundings [16:38] [Lucky> simultaneous is great, but I usually switch to turn-based as soon as a fighting starts [16:38] [Lucky> want to keep playing civ after all [16:38] [Trip> the biggest change is the 1-city elimination [16:38] [Trip> you have to watch every single detail [16:38] [Trip> make sure there are NO weaknesses in your defense [16:38] [Trip> or else you're dead with those 20 Horsemen sneak through [16:39] [Bongo> I know, takes away the scorcered* earth strategy [16:39] [Bongo> *=how do you spell that word?!?! [16:39] [Trip> scorched? [16:39] [Bongo> Might be it [16:39] [Trip> scortched? [16:39] [Trip> hehe [16:39] [Trip> that is an evil word [16:39] [Trip> I hate that strategy, personally [16:39] [Trip> I wish there was no ability to abandon cities [16:39] [Bongo> But ti's very effective [16:39] [Trip> without building them down and abandoning them with a Worker or Settler [16:39] [Trip> which is why it's bad [16:40] [Trip> it's a no-brainer [16:40] [Trip> if you know you're going to lose it and probably won't get it back, just burn it [16:40] [Bongo> I don't mind abandoning cites, but there should be some penalty, or take longer time [16:40] [Bongo> like max 3 citizens per turn [16:40] [Trip> I think that you should only be able to abandon cities through Workers or Settlers [16:40] [Trip> that way you could move badly placed cities or military camps [16:41] [Trip> but not raze your countryside as someone is approaching [16:41] [Bongo> Or it could be government dependant [16:41] [Bongo> Or create unhappiness-generating refugees [16:41] [Trip> meh [16:41] [Trip> it's not very realistic though [16:42] [Bongo> point [16:42] [Trip> people always say "but Russia did it against Napoleon!" [16:42] [Trip> but Russia didn't burn its CITIES and kill all of its PEOPLE [16:42] [Trip> it burnt crops and equipment and such [16:42] [Trip> as you can probably tell I've been through this argument a time or 12 [16:42] [Bongo> Yeah, pillaging mostly [16:43] [Trip> yup [16:43] [Trip> I have no problem with pillaging [16:43] [Trip> and you can still build/pop Workers and Settlers to evacuate population [16:43] [Trip> just none of this completely razing the entire countryside thing [16:43] [Bongo> I can, but you can still pillage everything and sell your buildings if you remove abandon [16:44] [Bongo> Maybe an evacuate button? Almost like the draft button but create one refugee each turn? [16:44] [Trip> hmmm [16:44] [Trip> maybe [16:45] [Trip> such speculation, it's all of no use [16:45] [Bongo> Like a worker except it doesn't do anything useful [16:45] [Bongo> maybe something for the AU guys [16:45] [Trip> true [16:45] [Trip> you could bring it up

	05-06-2004 07:24									#14
	Last of it Tired of ads?

quote: [16:46] [Trip> but there's still no way to remove the ability to abandon cities [16:46] [Bongo> Remembre the great wall in one of the ctp games? [16:46] [Trip> and that's used mainly in PBEM games [16:46] [Bongo> Made barbs NOT attack you, when the wondere expired you always had a zilloin angry barbs heading in your general direction [16:47] [Trip> haha [16:48] [Bongo> The second time you built it you would take them out *before* it expired [16:48] [Trip> I just bought CTP2 not too long ago off of eBay [16:48] [Trip> same with SMAC [16:48] [Bongo> Only tried smac once.. [16:50] [Bongo> Any hope of resuming normal diplomatic and trading relations btw? [16:50] [Lucky> good question [16:50] [Trip> perhaps, I will bring it back to the forum [16:51] [Bongo> Going to place any bets on when Neta will be gone from their starting continent? [16:52] [Trip> I got five bucks on 8 turns [16:52] [Krill> 2 turns, and this from a new comer. [16:52] [Bongo> LOL, any other bets [16:53] [Lucky> I could bet, but I know too much insider info [16:53] [Trip> how about bets on when the game will end? [16:53] [Bongo> I can't bet as I have too much influence on what's actually happening [16:54] [Bongo> the game? That's a tough one [16:54] [Lucky> loooooooong way to go [16:54] [Lucky> 2.5 years I´d say [16:54] [Bongo> It could be 30 turns or 230 turns...who knows [16:54] [Lucky> could be that we agree on a winner or something before that though [16:55] [Bongo> But I am relatively sure that it won't happen between steam engine and flight [16:55] [Lucky> psst Bongo, don´t give them a hint about our research finishing nuclear weapons in 30 turns :O [16:55] [Lucky> :-X [16:56] [Bongo> Yeah, GCA re going to build the UN and cast a vote, as there will only be two candidates (GWT and GCA) the vote will be a bit boring [16:57] [Trip> yeah, first you have to get a foothold on our continent [16:57] [Bongo> No need to, candidate one, he who owns the UN, candidate 2, biggest pop/territory [16:58] [Bongo> We all know who that will be [16:58] [Bongo> Almost forgot, candidate 3, anyone owning over 25% of either land or pop [16:58] [Trip> I'm curious as to how you're going to build the UN first when you're an age behind... [16:59] [Lucky> when we launch our arsenal of missiles, there´ll be no one left to counter our modern armor and then we´ll see who is ages behind [16:59] [Bongo> Not to worry, we will be ready [17:00] [Bongo> We'll build tha 'Banana Shield', anything will slide right off it [17:01] [Trip> we're the ones with the Bananas [17:01] [Bongo> Do you know where your peelings are MWUHAHAHAH [17:01] [Trip> and they can be stashed in subs too... [17:03] [Bongo> Oh well, time to empty my brain (more beer and TV) [17:03] [Trip> and our secret weapon [17:03] [Trip> the banana bazooka [17:04] [Bongo> Well, see you later. It has been more fun than informative [17:04] [Trip> just like the game itself [17:04] * Trip bows [17:04] [Trip> farewell, my honorable opponent [17:05] [Bongo> G'night oh worthy adversary [17:05] [Trip> [17:05] [Trip> 'Til lata [17:05] [Krill> cya Bongo. Have a good evening [17:05] * Bongo has quit IRC (Quit: ) [17:11] [Trip> well [17:11] [Trip> I must go [17:11] [Trip> I've got things to do [17:11] [Trip> important people to meet [17:12] [Lucky> you can go to the toilet if you must, no problem, no need to dismiss yourself [17:12] [Lucky> you are a big kid now, you can do it [17:13] [Trip> oh now, no need, I've already flushed GCA down many turns ago [17:13] [Lucky> yeah, that´s why we turned up on the other side of the world, you are responsible [17:13] [Lucky> and still you start all that hubbub about the issue, tsk tsk [17:14] [Trip> I never thought the water swirled in THAT direction :P [17:14] [Trip> 'Til lata [17:14] [Lucky> you never know [17:14] * Trip has quit IRC (Quit: ) [17:14] [Lucky> taking my leave as well [17:15] * Lucky has quit IRC (Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com)) [17:24] [Krill> cya E-T, this party is OVA [17:24] * Krill has left #isdgfamtalks [18:15] * Kloreep has joined #isdgfamtalks

	05-06-2004 07:25									#15
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I did my best to play up the fact that we could sit on our continent and win via diplomacy or SS in order to deflect attention from the fact that we're actually taking a proactive role in our victory of this game. Naturally Lucky had to try and do his best to muck everything up.

	05-06-2004 22:05									#16
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Oh god do we have to taunt?

Do we have to be wise-ass provocateurs?

I don't see how this chat has helped in keeping our intentions a mystery

	05-06-2004 22:30									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

So, does GWT have access to all our plans now?

	06-06-2004 00:46									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

chat might have well been:

quote: [Trip] We're so good, we micromanage every turn [Bongo] Yeah? [Trip] Yeah, in fact our puny empire could easily invade yours in 10 turns [Bongo] Really? [Trip] Yes, we're that good

Seriously, when you chat, leave your bragging rights and your ego home. Coming off as the world's best players must never get in the way of the impression we want to create to benefit us the most in-game. If we have to act a bit docile and impressed by them, so be it, it'll pay off when they sh*t in their pants after we invade them FOR REAL.

So again, please stop acting this way, it brings absolutely no good to our team.

	06-06-2004 01:15									#19
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Trip, are you trying to screw this team over? I can't believe you would do that. Do you have an explanation for this?

	06-06-2004 01:24									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master Trip, are you trying to screw this team over?

Yup.

Good thing there are no logs of our private chat.

	06-06-2004 02:47									#21
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Master Trip, are you trying to screw this team over? I can't believe you would do that. Do you have an explanation for this?

This, IMHO, is a disaster, of epic proportions. And Trip will be to blame, if the different strikes do NOT succeed.

E_T

	06-06-2004 03:58									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Give it a rest E_T, pleeeeease.

If our attack fails it can be because of many reasons, not necessarily this one. I have made it quite clear that this is not the way we should handle diplomacy with ot her teams, however it is apparent that trying to reign in Trip's ego is like reigning in a 2 1/2 ton truck. Hopefully this is understood and is not repeated in future chats. In the meantime, let's leave it at that.

	06-06-2004 04:42									#23
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quote: Originally posted by E_T This, IMHO, is a disaster, of epic proportions. And Trip will be to blame, if the different strikes do NOT succeed.

And then we can blame you for not winning the game at all!

	06-06-2004 04:45									#24
	Suffering from ads?

Mellow out guys. I really think personalities and inter-personal history are getting in the way here. I read the entire chat twice - and I don't see where Trip was giving anything away. A certain bravado is to be expected from Trip. That is who he is. If he was humble pie throughout this chat - then we would have to worry that Bongo and Lucky might suspect something is up.

And despite his posts above (which are being done simply to get your goat) I for one do not believe Trip would "screw" this team over. That's not who he is.

Now - on the other hand - Trip - haven't you resigned as consul? If yes - then I would strongly urge you not to engage in chats with others regarding the ISDG. It's not fair to the rest of the team. I would love for you to stick around, and see your plan implemented, but leave the FA work to others. OK?

	06-06-2004 04:51									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

The problem is, the FAM is non-existent.

	06-06-2004 04:52									#26
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Who is the FAM these days?

	06-06-2004 05:36									#27
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Beta Mellow out guys. I really think personalities and inter-personal history are getting in the way here. I read the entire chat twice - and I don't see where Trip was giving anything away. A certain bravado is to be expected from Trip. That is who he is. If he was humble pie throughout this chat - then we would have to worry that Bongo and Lucky might suspect something is up.

That was the entire point.

Diplomacy is that art of tricking your opponent into believing something you want them to believe. If you develop a certain "pattern" or "style," then acting in that style in the future will make what you say more believable. You become a character and use your role to project things.

I've known many to fall for these tactics in the past.

	06-06-2004 11:58									#28
	Get a bigger avatar today!

I don't think there was a problem with the chat. If Trip had acted as if Apolyton memebers were inactive or that things weren't going so well for us then they could have been suspicious of that. They know Trip already, they know his personality; I think Trip acted in a way that was completely in character and at the same time did not give up any secrets.

ET: like MZ says..give it a rest already. Please.

	06-06-2004 22:31									#29
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I've been locked down with house guests all weekend. but to be brief:

I would have preferred Trip tell Bongo and Lucky that he had resigned as the Consul and then chatted with them for hours about his new gig working for Fraxis's sister company. And when they asked him about the game he could feign a bit of ignorance and say that it's in Arnelos and MZ's hands now, or say that he doesn't really care that much as he has his big summer plans in mind.

That would leave them assuming that Apolyton was somewhat stumbling and without direction, and that it was left in the hands of a few diplomats, and without it's primary general. Also make them not get suspicious when we don't normalize relations, because it's likely that Trip didn't go back to the forum to tell us.

to quote myself:

quote: And ask them questions about how things are going as if you don't know that much and give the impression that our team is so very unactive and mostly uninformed that no one really knows what's going on except the guys who play the save ... and with Trip quitting and activity at an "all time low" you're surprised that the game is still going on.

That is what we should be portraying. Show them evidence that we are idle, disorganized, inactive, and without focus. ESPECIALLY show them evidence of this when we are, in fact, extremely organized and in the midst of our grand invasion.

--Togas

	07-06-2004 00:48									#30
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Togas I've been locked down with house guests all weekend. but to be brief: I would have preferred Trip tell Bongo and Lucky that he had resigned as the Consul and then chatted with them for hours about his new gig working for Fraxis's sister company. And when they asked him about the game he could feign a bit of ignorance and say that it's in Arnelos and MZ's hands now, or say that he doesn't really care that much as he has his big summer plans in mind. That would leave them assuming that Apolyton was somewhat stumbling and without direction, and that it was left in the hands of a few diplomats, and without it's primary general. Also make them not get suspicious when we don't normalize relations, because it's likely that Trip didn't go back to the forum to tell us. to quote myself: That is what we should be portraying. Show them evidence that we are idle, disorganized, inactive, and without focus. ESPECIALLY show them evidence of this when we are, in fact, extremely organized and in the midst of our grand invasion. --Togas

THAT my friends, is how diplomacy WORKS.

And THAT is how we conducted diplomacy in the past and achieved what we are now in no small part thanks to using this style.