05-06-2004 02:29									#1
	New poll about modifications to the next ACDG game Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Alright, new poll! Yeay!!

Ok since there have been quite some amount of discussions in favor of and against different modifications to the next ACDG game, some of us believe that it may be necessary to run a new poll. This poll will be open ended so that every one gets to vote in due time. The result will be evaluated when it is close to the openning of the new game and any conflicting results from previous polls will be overrided.

Anybody who has voted must post how he voted in this thread. Any unsigned vote will be deducted from the tally.

The options are:

	05-06-2004 02:32									#2
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I voted CMN only changes.

	05-06-2004 03:11									#3
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I also voted for CMN only changes.

The thread containing much pre-polling discusion is here.

	05-06-2004 03:46									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I vote CMN-only changes as well. Increases the playability and commitment of the more casual team members IMHO.

	05-06-2004 04:41									#5
	Re: New poll about modifications to the next ACDG game Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by HongHu Changes that require everyone do something in his/her own pcs:

Fortunately no one is suggesting that!
Allow me to summarize a few things said in the previous thread:

• IIRC Kody or johndmuller are willing to create a bat file that swaps the standard and ACDG alphax.txt files. Such a procedure would only take a few seconds: no more time than necessary to zip and unzip any other PBEM file.
  
• For simply viewing the ACDG turn you wouldn't have to change the alphax.txt file. It's only when you're moving choppers that there would be a difference. The turnplayer is the only one allowed to move military units, so it's only one person of each faction that would have to run a bat file once a week or so before and after playing the turn. Certainly not all participants of the Democracy Game.
  
• Currently the only possible changes to the alphax.txt accepted are reducing the chopper movement points by two and changing the prerequisite of the Cloudbase Academy. As a consequence there won't be any difference before Mind/Machine Interface is researched. The alphax.txt swapping would only have to be done in the post-MMI period, which is usually a shorter portion of the game than the pre-MMI period, even if the game doesn't end in a chopper massacre.

So a poll option that more accurately represents the situation, thereby allowing possible ACDG participants to make the best informed decision , would be:

quote: Changes that require the turnplayer to run a bat file before and after playing the turn in the post-MMI period

	05-06-2004 05:07									#6
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CMN only changes for me.

	05-06-2004 13:12									#7
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According to Maniac post, I voted CMN only. A lot of people do not understand the options yet, I am afraid.

	05-06-2004 17:13									#8
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I voted CMN only. Disable the EG and the CBA. Add a self-imposed rule that choppers can never attack bases, only units in the open, and we've solved the chopper problem as well as forced teams to think "outside the box" on new military strategies

	05-06-2004 17:41									#9
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by obstructor According to Maniac post, I voted CMN only.

I'm not advocating to vote CMN only. I'm saying the poll options don't accurately represent the situation.

quote: Originally posted by obstructor Add a self-imposed rule that choppers can never attack bases

Yeah, if everyone can agree to that, I'd like that better than reducing movement points.

	05-06-2004 18:43									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I'm not advocating to vote CMN only. I'm saying the poll options don't accurately represent the situation.

This is what I meant too.

	05-06-2004 19:29									#11
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Can we get this cleared up for good? I thought I understood the options, but some of the posts have convinced me I did not.

What EXACTLY can the CMN do? Disable SPs I know about, but is there anything else? We voted for disabling the EG and shifting the CBA further into the tree, but what about the choppers? We voted for that change too.

	05-06-2004 20:11									#12
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Voted CMN changes only.

For the four turns or so I played for the Drones, about half the time I forgot to save a just-before-ending-turn file so team members could see it. I can't imagine people won't occasionally forget to swap alphax.txt, even if it's easy.

	05-06-2004 21:11									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt What EXACTLY can the CMN do? Disable SPs I know about, but is there anything else? We voted for disabling the EG and shifting the CBA further into the tree, but what about the choppers? We voted for that change too.

Disabling secret projects and introducing units with special abilities is something the CMN can do without the need for team members to tinker with their alphax.txt file. Moving secret projects in the tech tree is something that the team members have to do for themself, is it by copying the CMN alphax.txt file or adjusting things themself doesn't matter.

	05-06-2004 21:45									#14
	Suffering from ads?

But as it stands, this poll over-rides any previous polls that require other action, so if the majority says CMN only - which looks likely atm - then reducing chopper movement, moving SPs around etc won't happen, even though they might have been voted for in the past.

	05-06-2004 21:49									#15
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This is what happens when poll is made in haste. I suggest we reset the poll, since HongHu explained all options clearely only after some people have already voted.

	05-06-2004 22:23									#16
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I say no, people can change their vote by posting "I change my vote."

It's only the posted votes that count, not the votes in the poll.

	05-06-2004 22:30									#17
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If only posted votes count, then why is there a poll attached if it doesn`t count? It is illogical.

EDIT: Now I have reread the first psot and realised that HongHu realised this too later. Ah well.

	06-06-2004 00:13									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I asked if the options are representative before posting the poll, but I guess I should have waited a little longer. Sorry about that. However I do believe that Chaunk is right, if somebody wants to change his vote, he could state so here. There hasn't been many who voted before the options were made clearer I believe, and I do not think many would want to change. My purpose of posting this thread as a poll is to give everybody a visual impression about how the general opinion is without them having to read all posts and add up votes themselves.

	06-06-2004 02:29									#19
	Remove this text

I voted for reloading the AlphaX, Its not to complecated and anyone who claims to be at all sofisticated with a computer would find it childs play.

I see though that theirs practicaly no chance of it happening the way the voting is currently going. So as an alternative I would like to see Googlies No-Chopper-Base-Attack rule implemented.

Also we can move projects by mutual agreement, just as we all agree not to make Rovers from Probe teams even though the game alows it we can have a rule that sertain projects are not built untill you have a higher tecnology such as Advanced Space Flight for the CBA or Centauri Meditation for the Empath Guild. These wont require any Alphax changes and we just watch each other to make shure their is compliance.

	06-06-2004 07:38									#20
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Perhaps someone can answer a question for me: what is the significant intelligence difference between owning the EG and being planetary governor? And, if the EG is so bad, then why isn't being planetary governor just as bad?

As to units and other details, I don't see why they can't just be ignored or have a general agreement on what the rules will be without hardcoding anything, changing AlphaX (or whatever). After all, this is a PBEM Democracy game between ladies and gentlemen, right? Or DO we need rules to prevent cheating? If so, count me out since I have no interest in wasting my time.

Hydro

	06-06-2004 08:30									#21
	Put an end to popups!

I think EG is different from the governor in that governor position is changeable and EG is permanent. It may also be available earlier than the governor election?

As for units and other details, the ones that needs to be hardcoded are different than the ones that can be implemented through general agreement, if I understand right. This is not because we assume everybody would be cheating. It is simply some changes such as shorten chopper range from 8 to 6 really can't be made based upon oral agreement. There's too many chances that somebody could forget about it or somebody new to the game is not aware it. It is too big of a hussle to implement it, not only to monitor it.

	06-06-2004 19:29									#22
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As HH says, the EG is permanent, and in PBEMs, vastly overpowering as it removes the need for probe infiltration

With the governorship, it does change, (both due to population changes, and in other circumstances - for example, if the governor (any player) gets his atrocities rating too high then he loses his voting status (the effect of sanctions) and can easily be replaced by an election call where he will be a candidate but have no votes to cast (an interesting little quirk I discovered in a scenario test recently)

G.

	07-06-2004 02:14									#23
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Wow that's great! After five years we I still discover new features in the game.

Last edited by Maniac on 07-06-2004 at 03:20

	07-06-2004 02:23									#24
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I learned two years ago. Please do not ask how

	07-06-2004 02:47									#25
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CMN only changes. And keep as close to the real rules as possible.

-Jam

	08-06-2004 19:21									#26
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

If the CMN can't change the Choppers movement and reposition the CBA, then we must change the files.

WHY is everyone so goddamn lazy? It's not hard! Are you actually happy to renege on the CBA placement and Chopper movement?

/sarcasm

Gee, that sounds like a f****** fun game to me! The same thing that just happened in this game would NEVER happen again! No sir...

	08-06-2004 20:36									#27
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm surprised you flare up on this, MWIA. I thought you wanted to learn SMAX strategies as the game is, unmodified?

Besides, I offered an alternative for reducing chopper movement. That is still possible even if the alphax.txt file remains unchanged for game purposes. Only the CBA remains the problem then, and is better gone then.

	08-06-2004 20:45									#28
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How long shall we fight about this. Can`t we just get along. This is ridiculous.

	08-06-2004 22:50									#29
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Who is fighting with whom now? Sorry I'm getting a little confused.

Right now I see Impaler and MWIA advocating changes everybody needs to do. Who are the other two votes? (Not sure if Maniac voted that too.)

	08-06-2004 22:53									#30
	Remove this text

Not everybody, just the turnplayer should do changes. *sigh*