05-06-2004 03:58									#1
	What is the greatest RPG of all time? Suffering from ads?

I think that would go to Final Fantasy 6 or Ultima 4

	05-06-2004 04:01									#2
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* Jamski calmly shoots Odin *

Toss up between Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment.

95% of the games people will now go on to name will be one of those 3.

-Jam

	05-06-2004 04:13									#3
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quote: Final Fantasy 6

You could argue that the FFs aren't even role-playing games. For instance, there's no character creation nor any real choices per se... It's more like an adventure game with role-playing elements, or, I daresay, a slightly interactive film.

That doesn't retract from the enjoyability at all, and Chrono Trigger and FF6 are some of the greatest games ever. I'm an avid fan of the them myself, but I prefer to categorise them as "Japanese rpgs" or "adventure rpgs".

What comes to the actual question, personally, I'd say it's the Bhaalspawn Saga of Baldur's Gate. If one must keep within the boundaries of a single title sold in stores, then it's Baldur's Gate 2.

Of course, you could/should include pen and paper games, in which case the greatest RPG of all time is by far Dungeons and Dragons.

	05-06-2004 04:19									#4
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I agree with everything Kassiopeia said.

	05-06-2004 04:30									#5
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Adventure RPG's are still RPGs

I first found Ultima 4 eleven years ago at a NES bargen bin, and I've loved it ever since.

The best traditional RPG I've played is my friends copy of Final Fantasy: Tactics.

	05-06-2004 04:32									#6
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*shudder*

That's not even an RPG, let alone good.

-Jam

	05-06-2004 05:03									#7
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Final Fantasy Tactics is good. Infact, I just started playing it again with an emulator.


I wouldn't say that it's anymore or less an RPG than other Final Fantasy games. Take that for what it's worth.

	05-06-2004 05:16									#8
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And while we're talking about "tactics" games. Is Tactics Ogre for the Playstation any different than the one for the gameboy advance? (I know the psx version was a port from SNES, so it seems likely that it's the same across the board)

	05-06-2004 07:20									#9
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Icewind Dale II.

If BG and BG2 had been on one CD and hadn't had to be swapped out... and they had been 3rd edition rather than 2nd edition, they would probably have either tied it or done it one better... but I really enjoyed IWDII's ability to make your own party a lot better than recruiting NPCs along the way. (Then again, I have a strong imagination, so I crafted my own character stories... others may have had problems)

Nevertheless, IWD2 is the best RPG I have ever played

-
for an old good RPG that you may or may not have played... Moraff's World (a D&D ripoff made by that venerable Shareware designer Steve Moraff) and released in either 1989 or 1992 or sometime before then it was amazing... a lot like Ultima Underworld, but cheaper and (i think) less buggy.

	05-06-2004 07:39									#10
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It would either be Baldur's Gate II or Ultima VII.


Though I played Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR before the Baldur's Gate series, and both impressed me greatly, I can see that had I bought the Baldur's Gate series back when it was first released, I may have been much more impressed, as I was still impressed playing them the first time just a few months ago. I still kick myself for being such an adolescent idiot and buying Diablo II instead way back in those days.


Ultima VII had a great plot, great graphics for its time, memorable characters and unmatched interactivity. And it was the first RPG I ever played, and indeed the one that sparked my interest in RPGs. And with the Exult engine, I can still play it without digging my 486 out of the junk pile.

	05-06-2004 11:21									#11
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You have to give it to the original Baldur's Gate, It's the one that defines all of the CRPGs that are now created. All of them are now compared to it and held up to it's standard.

	05-06-2004 11:44									#12
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as with Jamski's response.

Baldur's Gate 2, Fallout2, or Planescape: Torment.

Although I usually rate Planescape a litte lower. I like a little more combat. And the other games provide that.

also I'm very much enjoying playing Baldur's Gate 1 with the tutu mod. You get the cool features of Baldur's Gate 2, but the great storyline of Baldur's Gate 1

	05-06-2004 11:50									#13
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Wizardry 6 - 8.

Yes, it's one game.

	05-06-2004 13:43									#14
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* Illuminatus is disgusted at opening post

You dare to call that Japaneese junk an RPG?

Fallout 2 or Planescape Torment. Tough choice anyway. P:T has The Best Story (TM) ever in RPG, and Fallout just has the spirit. I guess it is P:T then.

	05-06-2004 14:40									#15
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My favourite so far is KOTOR, but I haven't played many and am yet to play BG, from which I am expecting a lot.

	05-06-2004 16:26									#16
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ah yes, KOTOR is good - has an epic soul, but it is somehow - too simple? for my taste. I am still going to finish it at least four times more.

	05-06-2004 16:45									#17
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I love Rpgs

8bit era(pre 1990's) : Alternate Reality( the city and the dungeon) on the atari 8bits - i have played the pc version which is horrible in comparison and the C64 version didnt look as good!

16bits(amiga/st)(pre 1995ish) : Ishar 1-3, and Eye of the Beholder series.

on PC : Fallout 1+2, BaldursGate series, Planetscape, Twilight2000 based on the pen and paper rpg of the same name, Elderscrolls games(Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind)

on xbox KOTOR+Morrowind, Fable is looking promising

some of the rpgs i've found most engrossing

	05-06-2004 17:16									#18
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You weren't impressed by the PoR, CotAB, SotSS & PoD series then on the Amiga? I thought they edged EotB1+2 out of the running.

-jam

	05-06-2004 17:33									#19
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elaborate on the full names - i only started to understand 'IMHO' last year on poly and what you mentioned doesn't ring a bell yet

	05-06-2004 17:38									#20
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Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Swords, Pools of Darkness....

See why I just put the abreviations?

-Jam

	05-06-2004 19:11									#21
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yes i do! and whats worse is i never played any of them! so sorry for your wasted effort -
I have heard of them though, and i guess EoB got alot of attention(and ended up on my harddrive) because it had a lot of polish for an rpg of the time?

	05-06-2004 19:48									#22
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But EotB was a bit lacking in the character development and roleplaying. Excellent action/adventure game though

-Jam

	05-06-2004 22:04									#23
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I guess that I love RPGs too, although I find them hard to finish.

Early one c64: Ultima 4, the one where you had to obtain traits to finish (never did, but good idea in that one)

Little later c64: Bard's tale...something about me and a bud of mine trying to finish it first.

C64: Mars saga, 1st real time combat and your party members would always be short lived (died a lot).

Other c64...tooo many to mention....I think that I played all the major ones.

Amiga...??? Nothing comes to mind....I must of been in an RPG slump. I do remember one called dungeon master (or something like that) where there were lots of graphical puzzles, switches, pressure plates, etc.

Modern era: The Baldur's gate and ID series are great. PT was good too. I also liked KOTOR very much. Arcanum was interesting at first, but too hard in some places. Fallout was another good series.

	06-06-2004 00:45									#24
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Whats the deal with dissing with Adventure-RPGs?

	06-06-2004 01:13									#25
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Mmm... KOTOR, probably. Simple, NOT simplistic.

Although I have to say, the term 'RPG' has very little meaning to me. It often seems to mean games which involve stat-management, rather than actual role-playing.

	06-06-2004 02:46									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Mmm... KOTOR, probably. Simple, NOT simplistic. Although I have to say, the term 'RPG' has very little meaning to me. It often seems to mean games which involve stat-management, rather than actual role-playing.

True, True...I was going to mention that there is aways way too much combat in these types of games and very little roleplaying.

	06-06-2004 02:47									#27
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"Roleplaying" is confused with "Rollplaying" by many...

	06-06-2004 03:51									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Odin Whats the deal with dissing with Adventure-RPGs?

Just that many feel they should be in their own separate category, preferably not called anyhting like roleplaying. Exactly the same comments will be levelled if someone pipes up with games like Dungeon Siege or Diablo.

There's a significant difference between choosing your own character(s) to play the game with and making plot choices so you can personalise your experience vs playing through a storyline where you have no significant dialogue, character or plot choices. If the latter is roleplaying then so is reading a book. That is not denying that some of them are extremely fun games (FF7, for example, is my favourite Japanese adventure)

I can't offer one top RPG. Ultima 4, Ultima Underworld 2, Fallout 2, BGs 2 and Planescape are all first rate.

	06-06-2004 07:36									#29
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Well, everybody means different things by "RPG." I personally refuse to roll dice and create a level 46 Elf Ranger/Sorcerer with a +6 Gauntlet of Power or some crap like that. FFXI does that, apparently, which is why I refuse to have anything to do with it. That and I'm too cheap to go paying fees to play a game. Actual, concrete characters as opposed to tolkien-ripoff statistics templates add a lot to a game...if all you're going to do in a game is balance a load of figures, you might as well stick to D&D. Or a Diablo clone.

With that said, FF6 really was a shameful little pile of crud. At least support something fun from the SNES, like Crono Trigger. Or even something like Romancing SaGa 3 that was awkward, boring and sucky but innovatively awkward, boring and sucky. FF6 plays like a half-baked FF7.

	06-06-2004 08:24									#30
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MORROWIND!

Although I love Fallout too, and FF6 is the best of the series. But none compare to Morrowind, in that Morrowind feels simply like a voyage. At least, now that I stopped playing the game, I have the same kind of memories from that game as from travelling in faraway places.