02-07-2004 13:17									#91
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Hmm, I'll have to try it when I get home. I could swear that the option is grayed out on the right click menu when I last checked.

	06-07-2004 17:39									#92
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I was not aware that what I did was cheating.
I do:
- never put anything in the build queue;
- Upgrade and move;
- move and form. Do you mean if you move with your rover former and you have 1 MP left you cannot terraform?!!? Yes, I do that. A lot. That's one of the reason I build rover formers. I never thought it was cheating.

But I voted for others, 'cause my favorite are the real cheats I was aware:
- I need cash. A lot. For SP rush. So I sell my Creche in city A, my BioLab in city B, ... and then, in City Z, I ask to sell ALL my RecyclingTanks (resulting 2 improvements sold in city A, B, ... in the same turn).
- I mind probe an ennemy unit with an unknown technology and I re-design units with that tech in the workshop. I also build at least one of them to get the prototype credit.

	06-07-2004 18:15									#93
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Move n Form refers to "carrying" terraforming around, ie you drill a borehole for several turns, then move the former and build a bunker instantly.

The "sell ALL" thing isn't really cheating, rather it's balanced by the sheer extremeness of using "sell ALL".

Reverse engineering probed units is not generally considered cheating, only reverse engineering the probe team to get the rover chassis.

	06-07-2004 18:53									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Blake Move n Form refers to "carrying" terraforming around, ie you drill a borehole for several turns, then move the former and build a bunker instantly.

Now I see what you mean, thanks.
There's a long time I haven't do that.

quote: only reverse engineering the probe team to get the rover chassis.

Didn't know that one. I usually build rovers before I build probes.

	06-07-2004 20:13									#95
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Mind probing a unit with an unknown ability/weapon to your faction isn't an exploit/cheat either, it is even common use.

	06-07-2004 22:58									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Dry I was not aware that what I did was cheating. {...} - I need cash. A lot. For SP rush. So I sell my Creche in city A, my BioLab in city B, ... and then, in City Z, I ask to sell ALL my RecyclingTanks (resulting 2 improvements sold in city A, B, ... in the same turn).

The only part of that that's 'cheating' is selling two improvements in a city. I think that's a cheat as the game tries to prevent it. But like Blake said, the costs outweigh the benefits, so maybe it should be called a 'harmless exploit'

Also, if you upgrade all your formers at the beginning of the turn, say to clean formers (I love that part of a game), and then move, that's not cheating. Only if you move, upgrade, and move again.
Edit: Note though that in PBEMs, the rule usually says 'Upgrade only at end of turn', which should be followed, but it's really just to insure that accidental cheating doesn't occur I believe.

-S

	06-07-2004 23:25									#97
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How can reverse engineering mind controled units not be considered cheating? I mean its a bug in the game that AI doesn't take advantage of. If you want to be able to build a stolen unit, steel the tech to build it.

	06-07-2004 23:46									#98
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The AI does build stolen unit types, or donated unit types, but it won't engineer a new unit based on one of these. That's my impression. I am more and more aware that I need to do some basic testing, esp. after your posts Querty.

-S

	06-07-2004 23:55									#99
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quote: Originally posted by Qwerty88 How can reverse engineering mind controled units not be considered cheating? I mean its a bug in the game that AI doesn't take advantage of.

What? Of course it will reverse engineer. I always keep my units doubled up just for that reason. Having the AI probe away a single unit is no big deal. But I have no desire to have the AI smack me around with my own technology. Now the AI is stupid enough to get their "prototype" killed before it starts RE, but I have seen it do it before.

Reverse engineering is the great balancing force in SMAC. Even a technologically superior force must be careful, lest he have his advantage turned on him.

edit: after readig some recent posts I should clarify I mean 'stolen designs' when I say 'reverse engineer'. I am not suggesting the AI will redesign from probed units.

	07-07-2004 04:52									#100
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I tried using the Stockpile Energy bug, but the Queue won't let me - if I'm building a unit, and put Stockpile Energy in the queue, and try and add a unit, it replaces the Stockpile.

I'm glad I learned some of these exploits. Just today I experienced Yang putting a coastal base near my own (ruining the production plan I had laid out) and without a suddenly-elite-probe team, I'dve been screwed.

	07-07-2004 04:58									#101
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quote: Originally posted by livid imp edit: after readig some recent posts I should clarify I mean 'stolen designs' when I say 'reverse engineer'. I am not suggesting the AI will redesign from probed units.

This thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=61110

discusses reverse engineering by the AI. The thread seems to confirm that the AI will reverse engineer gifted units and, possibly, probed units.

	07-07-2004 05:06									#102
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quote: Originally posted by ESpark I tried using the Stockpile Energy bug, but the Queue won't let me - if I'm building a unit, and put Stockpile Energy in the queue, and try and add a unit, it replaces the Stockpile.

The bug works this way: Start building the unit and place Stockpile Energy in the queue. Don't try to add another unit to the queue (which, as you observed, removes the Stockpile). When the original unit is built, you'll get the extra energy credits. Then you can start building something else at the base.

	07-07-2004 05:07									#103
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quote: Originally posted by ESpark I tried using the Stockpile Energy bug, but the Queue won't let me - if I'm building a unit, and put Stockpile Energy in the queue, and try and add a unit, it replaces the Stockpile. I'm glad I learned some of these exploits.

They are fun. Note that Stockpile should be alone in the queue for it to work.

	07-07-2004 12:37									#104
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quote: Originally posted by smacksim They are fun. Note that Stockpile should be alone in the queue for it to work.

So it doesn't work if the queue is empty, right?

	07-07-2004 19:59									#105
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If you finish building a unit and the queue is empty, it just starts building another of the same unit. No extra energy is refunded to you.

For buildings and secret projects, I think it works even if the queue is empty.

	13-07-2004 18:03									#106
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The drop pods thing....is it an exploit? Never thought it was....although what I think should be corrected is that unless infantry (where the first time no turns are subtracted) turns should be taken away, and one cannot drop when turns are all used up. Or I don't know....aerospace complexes kind of limit the thing as well.

I remember one recent game, where I air dropped onto an uninhabited continent full of fungus and....unity pods. With free market. I didn't know why I didn't think of it earlier. So I dropped onto every available pod on the continent, (incurred 95% damage with Fusion Power, but I didn't die afterwards) and ended causing a string of fungal towers, blooms, earthquakes, some credits, and a string of mindworms heading towards my new founded base on that continent (so okay, it wasn't THAT uninhabited). But what I did find were seven alien artifacts, but they were in danger of being retaken.

Now, then I came up with the idea of using my new found drop transports to "beam me out of here, Scotty!" - never mind the 1 cargo limit, just leave at base, begin next set of drops...within the same turn.

Only drawback - base ended up starving two citizens due to the spore launchers, however, the 350 minerals to my SP's were a great help. Is that an exploit, or what?

About the Spore Launchers on IoD's...I don't think thats a bug...I think thats a marvelous foresight on the Planet AI's part. After all...we do tend to bomb coastal bases and improvements with our own ships and laugh as the enemy cannot do anything back save for their own land guns...so why can't Planet do the same?

	15-07-2004 01:38									#107
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I think this whole thread is an exploit .

	15-07-2004 01:39									#108
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Hypocrisy or a decay of principles doesn't have to be an exploit.

	16-07-2004 14:30									#109
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I'm not sure if it's a exploit, but I sometimes use this:

I create a probe with best armor. They cost the same as the normal defender, altough they can't be added with some good bonuses (like AAA, if I recall correctly). But they have one bonus for free - they don't eat away your mineral support.

Also, another "exploit" I like is using sea probes - they are fast, and the AI doesn't build probe teams to defend it's sea bases

	16-07-2004 15:35									#110
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Probe Defenders don't work well because if any other unit in that square is destroyed it will be two so you can't use two probe defenders to protect a base, on the same note though native defenders can work well and be free in a base square one of two ways: (1) use the free scout you got at the beginning of the game to capture mindworms, unity vehicles, and Battle Orges so they'll have the same base support: independent; (2) this is rare but sometimes a fungal pop under your unit will give you a fungal tower and a unit in the same square, this gives you great opportunity. As long as you have a unit in that square you can move your units in and out of that square, thus with a former and a colony pod you can build a base in that square, but fungus blooms under the tower the turn you finish terraforming so you must build the colony that turn. Once complete you will have a base in a fungus square making your native units clean and native life should be able to enter and exit your base without attacking, the downside is that the tower will cause fungal blooms around your base.

	16-07-2004 16:01									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Qwerty88 (1) use the free scout you got at the beginning of the game to capture mindworms, unity vehicles, and Battle Orges so they'll have the same base support: independent;

I'm not a so hard core SMAC player and there's long time I haven't play it, but AFAIK, the 'independent' status is not linked to the base support of the capturer, but to the Green level of your faction.
It is something like maximum 6 independent units per Green level.
I have captured independent worms - a lot - with 'based' units.
When I go Green (+2), the first 12 (not sure of the number) units I captured have a probability to be independent, after that NO chance (0%). Except of course if some of the 12 die/disband.

	17-07-2004 12:05									#112
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There's several interesting theories of capturing independent native life units that I hadnt' heard before and the notion that a base in fungus is a free harbor for non-indie NL is another thing I had never thought about (but which I could easily believe to be true)! BTW, an existing base can become fungal sometimes, like if there is a fungal tower next to it, for example).

As to the capturing thing, I really don't know for sure what the mechanism is, but I thought that if you were sufficiently far away from your homeland (like maybe just outside your borders like the test for pacifist drones perhaps, or x tiles away from the nearest base), that any captured NL units would always be support free.

	18-07-2004 21:32									#113
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Say, supply crawlers only incur collateral damage (and none at base, right)...? So since they don't have upkeep, and they can have armour....they can replace the probe team suggestion?

And the rover chassis on crawlers with fusion or better reactor is free right, except when you have stuff like ECM...?

	18-07-2004 23:57									#114
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Supply crawlers suffer from stack destruction the same way probe teams do.

Fusion rover supply crawlers (0-1-2*2) cost 3 rows, just like the ordinary type (0-1-1), so it's a good idea to build them, unless you're bent on loading them with armor, in which case the rover component will increase the cost. They're also great for upgrading to fission clean drop neutronium rover crawlers, since you pay about 10 ECs per gained mineral row, rather than the ~20 ECs when upgrading infantry crawlers.

	19-07-2004 13:04									#115
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Ah, but when my former got brutally attacked by a mind worm, the crawler underneath it only incurred 50% damage.....I was assuming none at base, as well.

	19-07-2004 16:14									#116
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Odd. Collateral damage is always 30%, when it happens. Maybe native life acts differently, but supply crawlers usually all pop when the last defender does. Maybe they only all pop at a base? Someone can test this, of course.

	20-07-2004 01:28									#117
	Inflate your Upload Space

Oh sorry, it was 30%, just estimation since it suddenly went from green to yellow, it looked like 50%.