06-06-2004 06:40									#31
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I view Reagan as basically a good man who was used by the proto-Neocons, Big Business and religious wackos, because he was too naive and was already deteriorating, mentaly.

	06-06-2004 07:03									#32
	Re: Reagan's Legacy - How will he be remembered? Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Drogue Will he be remembered as a great president who caused an economic boom, showing capitalism working; or an evil mass murderer who precided over someone else's hard won growth?

Whose? Carters?

	06-06-2004 07:37									#33
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Comic relief in charge of 30 000 nuclear warheads.

	06-06-2004 07:46									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Unspeakable Horror Screw everyone else, USA is ok and that´s all that matters, Harry Tuttle? And then you wonder "why rest of the world hate us?" Good thing that not everyone there thinks like you

Actually it is champ. Sorry to break this to you, but the President of the United States stands for the United States not for everyone. You want a consensus, try the UN.

And no, not everyone, but a good, large, mother loving chunk Dickwad.

	06-06-2004 07:47									#35
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I will not dance on Reagan's grave.

Not out of respect of the dead (if the dead had an inherent right to respect, we wouldn't see people celebrating the death of so many "bad guys").

Rather, out of respect for you people who loved him.

And also out of regret, that the horror he brought upon the world with his ally Thatcher went unpunished.

	06-06-2004 07:53									#36
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Oh, and my previous post was my belated answer to Sava's thread.

As for the topic of this here thread: story will like always be written by the victors. If in 20 years, the US keeps being a capitalist hyperpower, Reagan will be remembered as a great president.
If the US loses its hyperpower status, or if American capitalism gets toned down, Reagan will be depicted as somebody misguided, and overrated. "Murderous" only if the other powers have a strong rivalry with the US, and intend to revile American heroes in their textbooks.

	06-06-2004 07:55									#37
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Looks like che is part of the Hitler 2.0 group.

	06-06-2004 08:02									#38
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And just another "little" warning...

I don't really care if you liked the guy or not... thought he was a great man, or a criminal...

But this personal attack crap WILL STOP. You will discuss things in a civil fashion, or you will find yourself not in a position to discuss anything.

IS THAT CLEAR!

	06-06-2004 08:11									#39
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On GePap's scale, I am probably a 1.9

	06-06-2004 08:45									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor And also out of regret, that the horror he brought upon the world with his ally Thatcher went unpunished.

The horror?

Aren't you haters exaggerating just a touch?

	06-06-2004 08:46									#41
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And Monk, you totally copied me. I claim exclusive rights to this Reagan pic.

	06-06-2004 09:05									#42
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I have about a months' prior claim.

Suffer.

	06-06-2004 09:09									#43
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quote: Screw Iran/Contra. The man stuck to his guns, didn't take a goddamn poll to decide his actions, and put America first.

Yeah, too bad that resulted in thousands of lives needlessly taken. Not to mention the international laws he ignored.

quote: The horror? Aren't you haters exaggerating just a touch?

Reagan supplied terrorists in Nicaragua with weapons. His goal was to disrupt in any way the Sandista government. It was vital that the Sandistas did poorly, for if they were successful in helping the country, other Latin American countries might imitate them and become communist. This would end the sweatshop labor that American businesses depend on. So, he gave terrorists weapons so that they could rape, torture, and murder thousands of innocent men, women, and children and do anything to hurt the country.

I call that horror.

	06-06-2004 09:12									#44
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quote: To continue my rant about How Reagan DID NOT win the Cold War:

Yep. And he did not bankrupt the Soviets. He imposed financial burdens on the Ruskies, but the bank was not broken. Their response to Star Wars, for instance, was a fairly small portion of their military budget.

What he did do was engage in senseless posturing with Gorby, to help discredit from the pov of the politburo (pressuring them to press for a coup) the force in Russia that was actually contributing to the end of the Soviet Union, his liberal reforms.

The Cold War ended despite the machinations of Ronnie, not because of him.

	06-06-2004 09:15									#45
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quote: Originally posted by johncmcleod Yeah, too bad that resulted in thousands of lives needlessly taken. Not to mention the international laws he ignored. Reagan supplied terrorists in Nicaragua with weapons. His goal was to disrupt in any way the Sandista government. It was vital that the Sandistas did poorly, for if they were successful in helping the country, other Latin American countries might imitate them and become communist. This would end the sweatshop labor that American businesses depend on.

As opposed to, say, China, which dosen't have sweatshops?

	06-06-2004 09:34									#46
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China bad. Reagan also bad.

Any other questions?

	06-06-2004 09:42									#47
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Yeah -- why do the commies around here think a communist government = no sweatshops?

	06-06-2004 10:05									#48
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GePap had a nice little analysis there. I agree that most people will be #2's. The man realized that detente with the commies wasn't the way to go. The way to do things was to challenge them and get in their face. Only then would they respect you. You don't sit back passively, you go after the bastards. He also brought back confidence to America. To many in the late 70s it looked like the American century was over. Reagan brought it all back. He made people love their country and initiated 'Morning in America'. And he didn't **** around. When the airline pilots got all uppity, he slapped them down, even though they endorsed him. He stuck to his guns, no matter what the politics.

Ronnie

	06-06-2004 10:08									#49
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Reagan brought the USA! to the USA

USA!

	06-06-2004 10:18									#50
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I'll just point out that he won 49 states in his re-election bid. I think that really settles the question.

	06-06-2004 10:22									#51
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A lot of the Reagan supporters seem to be ignoring the fact that his term at the helm left a staggering national debt.

quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk As opposed to, say, China, which dosen't have sweatshops?

Stop copying my tactics

	06-06-2004 10:24									#52
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UR, do you happen to know during which administration the US National Debt reached its peak? I'll give you three guesses.

	06-06-2004 10:33									#53
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quote: A lot of the Reagan supporters seem to be ignoring the fact that his term at the helm left a staggering national debt.

I guess FDR should be downgraded because of the debt load he put up too? Sorry, but that really doesn't matter to me.

	06-06-2004 10:37									#54
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Attachment: reagan2.jpg
This has been downloaded 128 time(s).

	06-06-2004 10:43									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: A lot of the Reagan supporters seem to be ignoring the fact that his term at the helm left a staggering national debt. I guess FDR should be downgraded because of the debt load he put up too? Sorry, but that really doesn't matter to me.

FDR freed Western Europe
Reagan freed Eastern Europe

	06-06-2004 10:58									#56
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quote: Not originally posted by Imran Siddiqui The man realized that detente with the Islamic fundamentalists wasn't the way to go. The way to do things was to challenge them and get in their face. Only then would they respect you. You don't sit back passively, you go after the bastards. He also brought back confidence to America. To many in the late 90s it looked like the American century was over. Bush Jr. brought it all back. He made people love their country and initiated 'Morning in America'. And he didn't **** around. When the small-government conservatives got all uppity, he slapped them down, even though they endorsed him. He stuck to his guns, no matter what the politics. Georgie

	06-06-2004 11:01									#57
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as a NINJA

	06-06-2004 11:03									#58
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I supported the war in Iraq and the War on Terror in general, joncha . Curtailing of civil liberties isn't challenging anyone except the ACLU, however .

	06-06-2004 11:04									#59
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quote: Yeah -- why do the commies around here think a communist government = no sweatshops?

China is really a merge of capitalism and communism. Under Mao there certainly would be no sweatshops, however, there certainly would be a lot of starving people. I think the Sandistas also would have gotten rid of the sweatshop labor.

The point is Reagan murdered thousands of people through his contras in Nicaragua, against international law. And when the World Court ordered him to pay Nicaragua back reparations, he refused to.

He also backed terrorist wars in Guatemala and El Salvador. Other terrorist organizations he backed include UNITA and Renamo terrorists, who were responsible for the deaths of one and a half million people.

He also supported the coup that put the Baathists into power, supplied and supported Saddam Hussein and allowed US companies to sell him chemicals that enabled him to build chemical weapons.

He also supported the Indonesian occupation of East Timor, probably the worst act of genocide since the holocaust.

And of course there was the whole Iran contras thing.

America needed Reagan though. Americans had normally been proud of America, but then Vietnam happened. For the first time Americans watched as their leaders imperialistic policies ruined millions of lives. It crushed them. It was the first time they'd seen an American leader do something terrible. Americans were feeling down. Then Reagan came in and with his excellent public speaking skills convinced the American people to become nationalistic again and ignore the wrong our leaders had done. Americans again became proud of the country and felt good about being American. And the US was able to help murder thousands, possibly millions without the pesky questioning from the public.

	06-06-2004 11:09									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I supported the war in Iraq and the War on Terror in general, joncha . Curtailing of civil liberties isn't challenging anyone except the ACLU, however .

What about the increased government spending and massive debt-load?